Many rawfood forums have died in the recent past.
It is not easy to maintain a rawfoof forum.
[www.alissacohen.com]

The Australian raw food forum also shut down a few years ago. I wonder why the activity is so low on raw sites. You would think new people would always be coming along to join up. Isn't this supposed to be a new era where people are all going raw?

"I asked a simple question, why is he pudgy?"

He's not.

Brian Clement is in a hard situation with his diet. He travels alot, and that means he is often in countries where it is difficult to source sprouted foods at the hotels or local restuarants. Often he has to make do with raw vegetables and cooked foods. He goes from one extreme to the other, and the jet lag and time zone differences wouldn't be helping his lifestyle. He often eats on the run too, and he is very busy. His lifestyle plan does work, but Brian is paying the ultimate price to get the message out there.

Also...Brian used to be obese. Maybe it is the excess skin that doesn't allow him to have a toned shape. His arms have never been tones and he has abit of a stomach, and to me that could be excess skin that never shrunk and tightened up when lost lots of weight very quickly all those years ago.

Brian looks great for a man who lives such a hectic unsettled lifestyle.

eat raw when sick

eat cooked when healthy.


Is Contradictory.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take care everyone, i better go. I don't want to
> push my stay.

What a lie. OF COURSE you want to push your stay. That's why you're still posting after four pages of goodbyes

the only friends of PL are a couple woman that feel sorry. PL will open the new and unique Sardines forum. And people will be able to post all the bad and sad news. GREAT bye bye.

Thanks. That explains a lot. I think that most of us, like Brian Clement, live a "hectic unsettled lifestyle." We do the best we can and often the external results are not reflective of the perfect toned body that so many raw vegans promote as a symptom of good health. Your explanation makes Brian Clement more relatable to me.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Clement is in a hard situation with his
> diet. He travels alot, and that means he is often
> in countries where it is difficult to source
> sprouted foods at the hotels or local restuarants.
> Often he has to make do with raw vegetables and
> cooked foods. He goes from one extreme to the
> other, and the jet lag and time zone differences
> wouldn't be helping his lifestyle. He often eats
> on the run too, and he is very busy. His lifestyle
> plan does work, but Brian is paying the ultimate
> price to get the message out there.
>
> Also...Brian used to be obese. Maybe it is the
> excess skin that doesn't allow him to have a toned
> shape. His arms have never been tones and he has
> abit of a stomach, and to me that could be excess
> skin that never shrunk and tightened up when lost
> lots of weight very quickly all those years ago.
>
> Brian looks great for a man who lives such a
> hectic unsettled lifestyle.

That was a good read also thanks TSM, and apologies to HH for my lengthy post about body types, no harm meant.

Brian has stated that, you would think it would be easier to get cooked vegan while traveling but it has actually been easier to eat raw. He also has the ability to get whatever dehydrated products he wants. I am sure that a guy like Brian can get away with not eating so much food also. He has been going to the same countries for a long time and has a well planned routine as where to eat. I also heard he will even request accommodations with a gym. Plus he is B.C. ya know, I am guessing any raw food or vegan restaurant would be happy to help him out.

I agree though it can't be easy to be traveling all the time and working with so many dying and sick people. I have been there and have seen all the people who want his time. He seems quite grounded through it all though. And yes he was obese, drinking, smoking etc. back in the day. He is a musician, a drummer, and was in a rock band, so you can only imagine what went on back in the sixties. He still plays and does so at HHI when he can. The good thing for him, is that while at HHI he can eat all the raw food and juices he wants, drinks distilled water and has a dry far-infrared sauna at his home. Don't quote me on the sauna tech. I forget the brand right now. Getting tired, see ya!

rawfoodrawfood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> temp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Take care everyone, i better go. I don't want
> to
> > push my stay.
>
> What a lie. OF COURSE you want to push your stay.
> That's why you're still posting after four pages
> of goodbyes

Yet you've signed up to a forum just to slate me ? All 3 of your posts lol.

You're the pathetic one. I know that you are just another John Rose account to get the point across.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2014 09:57AM by temp.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the only friends of PL are a couple woman that
> feel sorry. PL will open the new and unique
> Sardines forum. And people will be able to post
> all the bad and sad news. GREAT bye bye.

Haha, so its only a couple of woman who like me in your words because they feel sorry for me.

Maybe your right, but even then id still be more liked than you on the forum.

I posted my articles on Doug Graham's forum asking what his professional opinion was, as usual he just ignored the questions completely.

These people are the real people who don't want to HONESTLY support your quest in veganism.

[www.vegsource.com] Check the responses.

Heres the iodine post too - [www.vegsource.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2014 10:26AM by temp.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I posted my articles on Doug Graham's forum asking
> what his professional opinion was, as usual he
> just ignored the questions completely.
>
> These people are the real people who don't want to
> HONESTLY support your quest in veganism.
>
> [www.vegsource.com]
> 69.html Check the responses.

He doesn't have the bandwidth to answer those questions?!


> Heres the iodine post too -
> [www.vegsource.com]
> 60.html

One sad thing about him not even thinking about iodine is that it iodine containing seaweed which is probably exactly what he needs to clear up his salivary gland problems.

Hey, Temp or Powerlifer or Powerlifter or whatever you want to be called today.

I think it's clear that many of us are not digging our heads in the sand. You were on this forum for years (at least 5 maybe? you would know better than I the duration) and during that time you have always, as far as I know, advocated being careful about zinc and iodine and copper and b12 and vitamin D. So if that WAS the problem and the reason for your banning, it would have happened 5 years ago. INstead you are digging your head in the sand and being dishonest with yourself and other people on this forum by saying it's because we can't handle the "truth."

No, you violated the forum rules by recommending sardines. I was the one who reported you, though Prana may have banned you when he saw it anyway. I don't take back nor have any regret for reporting a person who recommended an animal product on a vegan forum wherein the site supervisor asked that all discussion be vegan in nature and not to recommend harming/using animals, repeatedly, including warnings to you repeatedly. You had your chance. If anything, I think people were pretty lax with you.

So no matter how much you think you have helped people and no matter how you want to build yourself up to be some kind of savior, you still in the end violated the forum rules. I am vegan but if I came out and did something that Prana decided was inexcusable, I would be banned, too. Prana doesn't give me special permission to act without recourse on a forum with rules.


Whether you like it or not and whether you will spend the rest of your life, day, week coming on here pretending it isn't true, some of us on here have made the decision that we don't want to harm animals. It's just not an option for us. So even if you want to tell us 20 times that maybe eating one egg or one chicken or one cow will somehow do us good (I'm not agreeing that sardines or any other animal products are healthy, I'm just making a point here lol), we're going to maintain our peaceful lives and not go on killing someone else. It's a decision that I made 12 1/2 years ago, some here more than 15 years ago, some more than 20 years. So I know you think that in your 5? years here you have brought to light some interesting news and because x person failed that we should all be horrified, but guess what? We have tools available to us, blood tests, nutritional trackers. WE have our own bodies. You aren't me. So please spare me your pompousness in thinking you know better than I do. I have listened for years and considered your thoughts (speaking about your posts that didn't violate the terms of service of the forum). Just because us vegans don't eat sardines now doesn't mean we disrespected you or that you were the pariah of the forum.

You just have to accept that we made a decision different from yours. You will be much happier when you do.

I'm not sure what Doug Graham has to do with this thread, maybe you can make a new thread. Oh, wait, you're banned and you left. Oh, wait, you're back. Oh, wait, you never leave.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where did i say my banning was to do with vegan
> nutrient deficiencies lol.
>
> I quite rightly accepted on page one of this
> thread that it was the talk of sardines which
> tipped prana over the edge. My response to that is
> that we can't have a full and open discussion on
> nutrition.
>
> What your failing to understand Utopian is that im
> not trying to convince anyone not to go vegan or
> to go vegan. Im just trying to arm people with the
> full picture and supporting ones quest with a safe
> vegan diet(if that actually exists) is discussing
> the contraindications and researched pitfalls im
> afraid.
>
> If you can't handle discussing diet openly in an
> adult manner like a few others on the forum here,
> without getting angry, defensive, personal, then
> id suggest forums aren't the place for you
> either.
>
> People will do and eat how they want regardless of
> what i write, but to some my opinion is obviously
> appreciated due to the response i get.
>


----------
Your quarrel with the banning seems to have to do with your amount of time here and you are pretending it has to do with you being non-vegan and that we can't have an open discussion. I was refuting that by saying that you have been non-vegan almost the whole time (let's asssume 5 years again), 5 years, and weren't banned prior, and in fact, advocated that animals products were better sources of certain nutrients during that whole time.

If anyone's getting personal, it's the people on this forum who are name calling and making little memes and pictures and taking personal jabs. That wouldn't be me. I have no clue who is vegan and who is not, so I"m sure you do and have kept a tally of it, since it's important to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 11:54PM by Prana.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
to some my opinion is obviously
> appreciated
------

Well, of course, Temp. I never suggested otherwise. Doesn't excuse violating the forum rules. What are you suggesting as an end result of this? Do you want your account back? In other words, if you're so upset and want to leave, why are you still here and taking jabs at people on this forum?

WHY DO COOKED FOOD NON-VEGANS SPEND ALL DAY ON A RAW VEGAN WEBSITE?!?!?!

Please Choose the Answer that you think fits best.

A] They are PAID INTERNET SHILLS [consciouslifenews.com]

B] They have Tom Billings Syndrome [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

C] They are Psychopaths [www.youtube.com]

D] ALL OF THE ABOVE.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This place could be great but its dominated by
> very close minded hostile members, as is most
> vegan forums. Alicia Silverstones being the
> exception and vegan bodybuilding forum.

Thanks for the tips on forums. I found the vegan bodybuilder and health one but have only found an Alicia Silverstone blog so far. Do you have a link to her forum?

Thanks again!

I think that 5 pages for this thread alone is already too much.

It makes no sense to go on like this, saying the same things over and over again.

Powerlifter has his point in saying that we should all be careful about our diets and always take into account both the prons and the cons.

At the same time, those of us who are vegans have also made a commitment to ourselves to never harm another animal again.

So, just like Utopian Life said, there is no such option to us as including one egg or one sardine into our diet. Not even one piece of meat or one sip of milk.

In such cases, the ethical reasons become more powerful than any other issue.

So animal products are no longer a viable alternative for us and they will never be considered again.

No, we are not fanatics, we are not excentrics, we are not extremists.

We are just human beings being/acting/living/eating humanely, compassionately and manifesting our love and care towards all animals.

This is a vegan forum, so all the discussions should focus on a healthy vegan lifestyle.

This being said and all being cleared, I think this dispute should just end.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

I don't think the ban was effective as PL made a new account and played victim.

Well, Powerlifter, I didn't say you thought of us as extremists, I was just referring to that in a general way.

Yes, I did say that even if I were to have a health problem, I would not go back to animal products. Like Tarah Millen from 40BelowFruity said, that she wouldn't mind sacrificing her life for the life of animals. I think that it's a wonderful and generous thing to do. Especially since I practically contributed to the killing of so many animals in the past.

But I'm sure, just like Utopian life said, that we can find another alternative to improve our health if need be, and we do have our bodies.

I wouldn't say that I (or others) am irrational for saying this, sometimes life has other meanings than just the one we think of.

I am not familiar to what happened to Dr. Gosia.

What I said in my previous post was aiming at ending this never ending dispute.
I agree that the information you are providing is very interesting and that you mean well, but I guess you should just not keep pushing it to those who just don't want it.
I think it would be better for you to just focus on your website where you know that readers share your opinion and value your help.

If I were you, I wouldn't insist so hard to stay on a forum where I know I'm not wanted. It's like you are waisting your time and resources in a place where they are not appreciated. And that is a shame, as you know you can be of more help in another place.

I am saying that for your own benefit, as everyone should choose to be in the appropriate place for him.
And since this is a vegan forum, I think that here a different type of information is looked for.

I would just get tired to be involved in such a long and exhausting dispute, that's all.

Wishing everyone here all the best

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

WHY DO COOKED FOOD NON-VEGANS SPEND ALL DAY ON A RAW VEGAN WEBSITE?!?!?!

Please Choose the Answer that you think fits best.

A] They are PAID INTERNET SHILLS [consciouslifenews.com]

B] They have Tom Billings Syndrome [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

C] They are Psychopaths [www.youtube.com]

D] ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Based on the length of this Thread and the fact that chris/pl/temp won't leave after being asked to leave, there is at least one more possible Answer for this perplexing Question...

[www.youtube.com]

Stop engaging me in conversation and ill leave very quickly.

I wasn't intending on coming back on here today until i seen your fake account has chimed in and Panchito with his snarks as usual.

As long as my account is active after having requested a ban about 5 times now, ill continue to engage in conversation if its directed to me in the thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2014 05:31PM by temp.

<<<As long as my account is active after having requested a ban about 5 times now, ill continue to engage in conversation if its directed to me in the thread.>>>

YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED TO LEAVE AND YOU CREATED A NEW ACCOUNT. IF PRANA CLOSES THAT ACCOUNT, YOU WILL CREATE ANOTHER ACCOUNT BECAUSE YOU ARE ...

[www.youtube.com]

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED TO LEAVE AND YOU CREATED A NEW
> ACCOUNT. IF PRANA CLOSES THAT ACCOUNT, YOU WILL
> CREATE ANOTHER ACCOUNT BECAUSE YOU ARE ...
>
> [www.youtube.com]

No i wont be making any other accounts don't worry. I don't need to make multiple fake accounts on here like you do John Rose to insult everyone.

I signed up to tell Prana to permanently ban me, not just for 30 days or so temp that i was given. If he had given me any prior warning or an email to him, i would have just used that.

No common courtesy though, couldn't even login to my account to get the people's emails that were asking to be sent to me. I wouldn't mind if prana was at least half consistent with his moderating abilities, or non-existent moderation.

Yet he lets people like you run wild on here.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2014 05:49PM by temp.

"But i think you said you had only been eating this way for 6 months or something. Come back to me in 3 years of eating strictly vegan and if its still working, id be proud of any of you guys, because lets face it most of us couldn't make strict veganism work unfortunately."

No, YOU couldn't make it work, unfortunately. There are tens of thousands of vegans making it work and have been making it work for decades.

"If you got severe b12 deficiency to the point you were bed ridden and couldn't walk up the stairs, i suspect you would feel very different."

Tell that to all the meat eaters with B12 deficiency. B12 deficiency is NOT a result of the vegan diet, it's the result of unhealthy lifestyle habits which destroy healthy gut bacteria (processed foods, GMO's, smoking, antibiotics, etc). Detoxing the body and supplementing with probiotics and B12 for a limited period of time (to jumpstart the process again) and/or consuming certain varieties of algae and sea vegetables will sustain B12. Even if one couldn't create their own after doing what I just mentioned, it's way healthier to take a soil-based B12 than it is to consume animal products. And again, chlorella and nori have been scientifically proven to increase B12 levels.

<<<I signed up to tell Prana to permanently ban me>>>

Do you really think any of us believe this?!?!?!

All you have to do is GO AWAY!!!!!! and NEVER COME BACK!!!

And then, you could always come back once you were reinstated and then ask to be permanently banned.

YOU DO NOT BELONG ON A WEBSITE WHERE YOU DO NOT SUPPORT THE PURPOSE OF THAT WEBSITE. WE WILL ALWAYS BE TALKING ABOUT B12, DHA, VITAMIN D, IODINE AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES INTO BEING HEALTHY AND WE DON'T NEED YOU TO REMIND ANY OF US THAT THESE ARE CONCERNS FOR EVERYONE LIVING IN A WORLD WHERE CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED!!!

Why don't you just leave with a little dignity and do what you have been asked to do and that is to LEAVE!!!!!!!!!

Powerlifer may you find happiness in a community that is more suited to you. And may good health find you. We all were sent out into this universe to explore what we want to explore, there is no wrong or right, all is god.
May you find a forum that welcomes your views. These forums with rules, help me when I find they stick to the rules. I have seen unmoderated forums claiming raw veganism but all talking about raw meat ( THE SUNFOOD OLD ONE) and more frequantly now other raw vegan forums talking about cooked veggies.. I get so disgusted I can't even go on it, staying all raw is challenging enough.. so it is a good thing this one has rules. I know you cannot see it, but I am grateful for it. Do not be upset.Send out thanks, love, good will.. and all will be fixed inside emotionally, I can see you are upset..

I hope this doesnt upset you. I mean well. I have felt like a total loser before on forums myself...I had a whole gang of women on "THE RULES" forum all laugh and call me stupid, for taking longer on a first date than was allowed in the dating book. Then they ganged up on me again for taking a walk on another first date, when I could have been killed or raped they said, and they kicked me off and wouldnt even let me delete my entries or profile " as example" to the newcomers. How I must have been a troll..or a man, or don't be like..!! I got so upset, I cried I vowed I would report them, tried finding out what they changed my password too, joining again under different email etc..but you know what time fixed all that. Looking back I laugh how stupid the whole thing ...and you will too.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2014 06:29PM by coconutcream.

Powerlifter, actually I said I have been vegan for 1 year and 6 months. But that's not the issue.

Jtprindl and Coconutcream are right, and so is John Rose in saying that you would be of more help on a different forum and, like I said, especially on your website, where you are at home and you have your own rules.

I know that I have a long way to go, I know that I am just at the beginning of my journey, but I have faith that everything will work out fine.

I do not know what the future holds for me, but I do know that I am doing the best I can in this world where, indeed, everything has changed and nothing is as it used to be.

I also know that I will never harm another animal by eating animal products. Never.

I do not think that you are selfish, you just have a different mind set. And everyone is entitled to a personal opinion and choice.

Thank you for your good wishes.

I believe that I will not get a severe B12 defficiency (or any other defficiency) if I am careful enough and I prevent it.

Like Coconutcream said, may you find a great place where you can educate the others, and also keep investing in your website as a good source of information about health.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.