Do you think it's really an eating disorder in disguise? Food for thought! (Sorrry...)

[www.youtube.com]

Doesn't your intuition already know the answer?

HH Wrote:
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> Doesn't your intuition already know the answer?


If I pose a question, it's to the public, not for myself.

It was for me. I tried for years and years and eons. I did. I hate saying this, I really do, but I got fat. Now DR is going to attack me for sure for saying that.

I dont know how!!! But I have photos. I do, me on 811. I had a big belly, I could not fit into jeans. I didnt care I went on, signing onto things that say, " I believe 811 is the best diet out there" just to sign up for forums.

I dont understand it all. I was told I need to wait for up to two years to have that skinny body. I was told I was lying, yes. Its a mindfuck and twilight zone. Lots of looking in the mirror wondering. Am I doing this wrong? Eat more? Ok.

But you know what, some people love it. To some, its easy.

I love fat, like seed cheese dollops in my soups. Or handful of nuts every few days when I am hungry.

I do love Doug Graham, and even before 811 he was cool to me. I loved the HIGH ENERGY DIET.

I think there may be a point a grain of truth but I was not able to attain 811 greatness and success.

I like this video and she is right, Kristina is high functioning and people do benefit. But not me. I am not Kristina. I am Mado. I am complex. I come from old school raw veganism. I come from raw food kitchens and apprenticeships. I have seen healing from high fat, and high greens.

Counting calories first of all, enuff said. Do you know that every calorie book out there is not accurate to each other. One says this orange is this much, another book says this same orange is another number ..how do you really know how many calories you are eating? A banana is exactly 100. Ok. But another book says its 150. Its all different.

Great video. But I didn't learn anything new.

I support 811 ers as long as they fully raw. I do. Its not for me though, or you know

what you take what you like and throw out the rest and what I got out of 811 that I still use, is banana smoothies. I drink them ALOT!!! And to love fruit. I love fruit. Always have.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 05:48PM by coconutcream.

Wow, I need to ask you something--are you saying that you were able to lose weight eating a higher fat raw diet? Because I am under the impression that you are 100% raw, right? And do you know approx. what percentage fat you consume per day? It would be interesting for me to hear more about this.

Freelee has said that even after going 80-10-10 she did not lose the weight right away and even gained some so I don't know how long you remained 811--literally years?! Wow, if true. And then the weight dropped off?

Oh so you already know the answer and are just using this once useful forum to troll for attention. Thanks for clearing that up.

banana who Wrote:
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> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't your intuition already know the answer?
>
>
> If I pose a question, it's to the public, not for
> myself.

HH Wrote:
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> Oh so you already know the answer and are just
> using this once useful forum to troll for
> attention. Thanks for clearing that up.
>
> banana who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HH Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Doesn't your intuition already know the
> answer?
> >
> >
> > If I pose a question, it's to the public, not
> for
> > myself.

You're in one of your "moods" again. Knock it off.

so 80-10-10 is DEAD

Yeah, one of my moods where I won't tolerate your unprovoked aggression. Right.

banana who Wrote:
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> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oh so you already know the answer and are just
> > using this once useful forum to troll for
> > attention. Thanks for clearing that up.
> >
> > banana who Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > HH Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Doesn't your intuition already know the
> > answer?
> > >
> > >
> > > If I pose a question, it's to the public, not
> > for
> > > myself.
>
> You're in one of your "moods" again. Knock it off.

If you think you're going to lose weight from "30 bananas a day" there's a good chance you won't.

close2raw Wrote:
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> If you think you're going to lose weight from "30
> bananas a day" there's a good chance you won't.


Elaborate, please. I can think of reasons that some would not be able to stick it out but I am assuming that you are factoring in the possibility of being able to do it in the first place.

80-10-10 has advantages and disadvantages. It is really good for cardio but bad for the brain (light sleep, grumpy, etc). You could add some more fats in between days and get more benefits. I think I do around 15% fat but I switch (don't follow a flat percentage). Fats helps you too.

I do the same or similar as Panchito. I might even average out to 20% cals from fat some weeks.
What I like to do lately, that has been working awesome, is a high-fruit, no overt fat (which is NOT fat-free, mind you) diet Mon-Fri, which is mostly green smoothies, tomatoes, cucumbers, salads, chopped fruit, salsas, and Sat-Sun eating more green juices and some nuts, seeds, avocadoes, coconut, etc., and less sweet fruit on those days. I think some nuts and seeds are necessary to be healthy. I do NOT advocate or recommend 90-5-5.

As to whether, it's an eating disorder, I don't think so. There are omnivores with eating disorders. Should we call omnivorism an ED? There are lacto-ovo vegetarians with eating disorders. Is vegetarianism an ED? There are vegans with eating disorders. on and on.

Utopian Life--Thank you for explaining how you do it. I think it's an interesting plan to eat low-sugar on the days you up the fat. As for the eating disorder aspect, the difference is that the very diet itelf (811) eschews fat and it's a logical question to ask: is fat really the enemy or does the very term strike fear in the heart of those who tend to be anorexic in their thinking and/or behaviors?

The fat in the blood (from the fat in the food) is really noticeable when doing strenuous exercise. If I eat more fat than usual, I don't feel like engaging on physical activities. I feel "choked" from the inside (like not enough O2 or something) which affects motivation and outlook towards exercising. It takes 2-3 days to disappear (by cutting fat). If I cut fat too much I do really well during exercise but "brain" problems start to appear (light sleep-longer hours, grumpy, hormones, etc). I have to keep dancing with the fat (~15% depends) to have body/mind equilibrium.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2014 02:41AM by Panchito.

80-10-10 does not eschew fat

"Fats helps you too."

Who logged into your account?

What works best for me is 100% raw, no overt fats, 50% fruits and 50% veggies. I'm around 85/8/7. I can't eat 2500 - 3000 cals, it's too much for me. I feel best on 2000 maximum, but I'm usually having more like 1500 - 1800 cals. When I was eating a lot of dates and bananas I gained weight. The same happened with lots of watermelon. People are different. I never compare myself with others. I'm me.

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Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

"What works best for me is 100% raw, no overt fats, 50% fruits and 50% veggies. I'm around 85/8/7"

no overt fats?
That may not be healthy

Ela2013 Wrote:
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> What works best for me is 100% raw, no overt fats,
> 50% fruits and 50% veggies. I'm around 85/8/7. I
> can't eat 2500 - 3000 cals, it's too much for me.
> I feel best on 2000 maximum, but I'm usually
> having more like 1500 - 1800 cals. When I was
> eating a lot of dates and bananas I gained weight.
> The same happened with lots of watermelon. People
> are different. I never compare myself with others.
> I'm me.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ela, the reason you can't eat that many calories is that you are keeping your fat so low. If you added some avocado, coconut, etc. the calories would naturally be higher. Why can't you eat more plant fat? What happens when you do? Do you think you can do this for the rest of your life?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2014 03:09PM by banana who.

BananaWho, the thing is that I don't crave fats at all, I don't feel the need to eat them. I've been overt fat free for more than half a year now and I feel great. Actually I feel better without them. When I had overt fats, I felt heavier, lethargic, my digestion was slower, my skin didn't look good, I wasn't feeling my best. Ever since I went overt fat free, my digestion sky-rocketed, I've been having so much energy, I feel light, my skin looks like a baby's skin. I simply don't need/want them in my diet. And yes, judging by these benefits I'm feeling, I can go on like this for the rest of my life. You are right, when I was having overt fats, my calories would easily reach 3000+.

CommonSenseRaw, I think that everyone must seek what works best for him/her. As I said, we are all different and we have different needs. I recently got a great advice - that some people thrive with no overt fats for longer periods of time, and some need those fats everyday. Also, some people need the fats once cold weather is coming, to get that warm heavier feeling, but looks like I don't crave the fats, not even now, when winter is close. I'll just see how it goes from here on...

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Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

"Ever since I went overt fat free, my digestion sky-rocketed, I've been having so much energy, I feel light, my skin looks like a baby's skin."

I think the problems associated with a lot of people eating fats such as nuts and seeds are:

1.) They are eating dehydrated nuts/seeds (and potentially even pasteurized without knowing) which are harder to digest than if you soak/sprout them yourself and eat them because they have a higher water content and more enzymatic activity.

2.) They are eating RAW nuts/seeds but not SPROUTED nuts/seeds.

3.) They have low levels of probiotics in their guts

4.) They are overeating or not chewing them enough



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2014 02:25PM by jtprindl.

Thanks jtprindl, very important points you stressed.
I will stick with sproutable nuts and seeds

jtprindl Wrote:
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>
> 2.) They are eating RAW nuts/seeds but not
> SPROUTED nuts/seeds.
>
> 3.) They have low levels of probiotics in their
> guts
>
> 4.) They are overeating or not chewing them enough


Spot on!!! I can't emphasise the importance of those points enough. Raw vegans do diets and eat food very haphazardly so it is no wonder so many do poorly. I would guess that many on the 80-10-10 eat their fruit so quickly (almost swallow it) because they have so much food to get through, and given many would have low probiotic bacteria in the gut (eg, they have trouble digesting soaked nuts and seeds) l am not surprised many do so poorly.

Animals seem to be able to slallow their food quickly because they live in nature and have to do it, but humans appear to be different.

Do you stand up and eat food and drink? Not good. Do you concentrate on the food when you eat or do you do other things while eating?

Chewing your juices really well makes such a big difference in digestion. It is so worth taking the time to chew your food and juices well.

The nutritional science of 80-10-10 makes NO sense at all...it reads like a disaster on paper


I am not saying that theory is everything, far from it, but maybe the science does apply to some extent and goes some way to explain why so many fail.


Nutrient dissonance in 80-10-10

- Sodium is low and Potassium is high = BIG mismatch
- Copper is high, Manganese is high, Zinc is low, iron is too low to counteract high Cop/Mag = BIG mismatch
- Phosphourous - calcium is not ideal from memory 3:1 isn't it?
- low level of zinc will hinder manufacture of EPA/DHA.
- the low fat means low ALA, and given low conversion to long chain fats this could end one up on the very low end for these long chains omega 3 fats.
- Iodine is a problem.
- what about K2?


See...eventhough some may get the RDA's for nutrients it still doesn't neccessarily matter if the diet synergy is all disturbed. As l said, it is a total disaster on paper and the theory could go some way to explain why people may be having problems.


Another possible issue is that most people are not supposed to be suited to the high carb fruit diet because they are fast oxidisers according to Gabriel Coisens. If you are a fast oxidiser you will suffer BIG problems on a high fruit diet....very few will do well, and this appears to be the reality. Hmmm.


Is the high fruit diet dumbing us down with fructose?? Haha
Another potential issue = high sugar. NOW, l never enter into the sugar debate because it is a tricky topic, BUT l have been doing some experiments in recent days. I have been loading my body up in recent days with lots of fructose (an experiment) via lots of watermelon during the day. I can tell you that my clarity of mind is lost and l can no longer think clearly after all the watermelon...my mind feels so buzzed out. Gabriel says all the fructose (more than 2 bananas worth) causes inflammation of the brain)...so maybe my brain is so inflamed that it is somewhat cripled from all the fruit?? Hahaha.

I was going to do a 30 watermelon fast, but 2 hours of watermelon consumption is making me feel so brain dead that l can't continue more than a few hours. I don't fare too well at all, the mind functioning greatly nose dives and confusion overcomes me. I am dead serious. Having lots of green juices does not help eliminate these symptoms.

"Chewing your juices really well makes such a big difference in digestion. It is so worth taking the time to chew your food and juices well."

How does juice get improperly absorbed provided you don't mix it with something incompatible (either right away or not waiting long enough)? I agree, though, focusing on your meal/drink and relaxing shortly after is the best way.

<<<Is the high fruit diet dumbing us down with fructose?? Haha>>>

As promised...

[www.vegsource.com]
From: gary (71.41.49.242)
Subject: what is worse than "bad behavior"?
Date: October 2, 2014 at 9:13 am PST

In Reply to: Re: more rubbish from the anti fruit crew + bad behaviour raises it's head again posted by Paul on October 1, 2014 at 8:33 pm:

BJ, I have already answered your questions. I would suggest that you pay attention to the answer when you ask a question, and stop your childish bullying about me answering your questions. I have absolutely no need for you to pay any attention to me. you could scan back to your original question and view my answer. but that would deny you the claim that i have not answered your questions that i have already answered.

so what is MUCH worse than "bad behavior"?

- people who ignore the success of others,
project dire consequences WITHOUT ANY evidence,
IGNORE the real examples of those who are
thriving on those very diets that they criticize.

- people who are intellectually bankrupt who
repeatedly make statements with absolutely no
evidence about blood tests when they have no idea
what they are talking about.

-people making statements about cholesterol that
have no REAL evidence other than studies which
are limited to the scope of the study and are not
real world/raw diet based, and ignore healthy
populations with low cholesterol.

-making statements about triglycerides on a blood
test while not making the smallest investigation
into what it means to have a test done while in a
non fasted state. then ignoring that fact.

- making repeated statements about all the
supposed deficiencies on a vegan diet, all the
while having abundant examples of people who
thrive, as well as the science to back it up.

- people who constantly make the nonsense claim
that anyone calling them out for their idiotic
comments is behaving badly because of their diet.
very tiresome. but, wait, that does enable them
to ignore the actual SUBSTANCE of the discussion.

- what is the worst part? these people making
these statements are making them simply because
they failed to thrive on a raw fruit based diet
so this is purely EGO based. they cannot stand
the success of others, and childishly attempt to
elevate their own personal diet above others, and
bring out the big guns, and call others talk
kindergarten talk, and all other kinds of BAD
BEHAVIOR, all the while hiding behind
spirituality and phony politeness, and accusing
others of BAD behavior.

-and why could it be that a dried food eater eats
fruit and gets tired? oh, it must be that fruit
diets are bad? could there be any other reasons
? could it be that you were not sufficiently
hungry? you overate? could it be the over fatty
state of your bloodstream? no. must be the
fruit. ack.
[www.vegsource.com]

What exactly is your definition of "success" on a diet?

Who's "thriving" on a high-fruit diet and where are the cellular tests to prove it? People who exercise hours and hours every day just to burn off all the sugar they consume?

Are there any primarily fruit-based eating cultures?

A lot of those accusations sounded exactly like the person making the accusations. It was like he was describing himself. Literally nothing he said had any sort of evidence behind it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2014 10:30PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
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> What exactly is your definition of "success" on a
> diet?
>


I think we have big differences in what we classify as success on vegan diets. Many people appear to classify looking good and feeling energetic as the ultimate mark of success, but to me it is so much more than that, and from my wide observations in the raw vegan world l see very few who fit into my definition as a success story.

Lou Corona is a success story.
Gabriel Coisens is a success story.
Anne Osbourne is a success story.

I am sure there are a bunch of others too.

What do these people have in common? They feel good, they function good, they have a HEALTHY OUTLOOK on life, mild mannered without the need to "behave badly", a good open mind, a connection, act honourably etc. They are not threatened or angered by different viewpoints, and feel at peace in themselves,ie, they are not maniacs lol.

We want to feel really content in every way and end the struggle with raw and the mind. Everything should fit into place and become easy. If hassles come up, so be it, don't worry about it. My website got wiped out over night...do l care?...heck no....badly behaved sabotagers are not going to stop me. I'll get it back as soon as l can.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2014 11:05PM by The Sproutarian Man.

We have got to learn to live in the moment and not worry about anything. We still need to plan stuff out,but enjoy life in the moment to the fullest. We have got to feel great to be alive and be full of love because that is living life to the full. It must come from within without the dependance on stuff. If you need lots of stuff to be happy that is conditional happiness.

Funny enough...there is a well known vegan bike rider who rides his bike many MANY miles each day. About 6 years ago he made perhaps his best youtube video when he tapped into really high level wisdom. This was a beauty moment caught on film.

durianrider: what makes me happy?
[www.youtube.com]


I used to worry all the time and get stressed out. My dad never worried in his entire life because he always thought it was silly to do so. Well...l don't worry about stuff anymore because it is one of the dumbest things we could possibly do. Get into control of your emotions and stop being scared and having fear. How do we stop worrying and having fear?...to live the FULL lifestyle...a sustainable all raw vegan diet, a connection, to love others and to live in the moment and feel content. Hard to do yet so simple when we have it all, we can do it. Must keep focussed and know oneself to have it all.

www.thesproutarian.com