Dave, you are so cool. I can't wait to hear the results. I am praying for you...


A Iyer

Can anybody shed some light on what Brian Clement recommends for a daily eating menu. I'm not sure I follow what he recommends.

Actually I would like to hear that too. I don't know anything about it.

thanks
A Iyer

Note to all.... The original thread is listed below. Those only reading this one, should refer to the post below for the full context of this topic. They really should be combined into 1 thread for the correct context. Maybe the moderator can combine.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com] Original Topic for reference

Hello Everyone,
We finally got the video response edited and placed on youtube. They now have a 10 minute limit, so it is in 2 parts...

[ca.youtube.com] Part 1
[ca.youtube.com] Part 2

The response is mostly to Dr G. eariler in this post.

I will post the entire video in 1 part on the AliveRaw website tomorrow as well.

Have fun with this.... :-)

Best of Health to all.

davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmm...he said it would take a bit...perhaps 4-6
> weeks.

That doesn't seem reasonable. He should give you VIP
service since so many people here are interested in the results.
I think you're very courageous to do this, since Brian Clement
feels so strongly that your high Fruit Diet has produced deficiencies........WY

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> davidzanemason Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hmmm...he said it would take a bit...perhaps
> 4-6
> > weeks.
>
> That doesn't seem reasonable. He should give you
> VIP
> service since so many people here are interested
> in the results.
> I think you're very courageous to do this, since
> Brian Clement
> feels so strongly that your high Fruit Diet has
> produced deficiencies........WY

Hi Yogi,
He is getting the VIP treatment. We got him in on the first available date, this Tuesday. The blood work will be sent out Tuesday via FedEx to Texas, and it takes them 3 to 4 weeks to do the test. They are the only lab in the world that does this type of test. They actually grow the Lymphocyte cells in the blood and test for each nutrient. We have no control of the time line, since their testing process takes this long.

As soon as we get it back, Dave will be the second to know.

I just checked out the videos. Thanks for posting, that was very interesting. Regardless of the outcome, this seems like very valuable research.

Aloha Nui Loa,

Greg

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices. - William James

There is no pill that can be swallowed,
There is no guru, that can be followed, - Michael Franti (Pray For Grace)

The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. - Albert Camus

Yes - I just want to support Activeinternet and say that he and Dr. Clement have certainly been very gracious, timely and proactive in response to my queries...and arranging for me to come over. Either way it's a win/win scenario. If my results are quite negative....then it might confirm and provide information to Dr. Clement's work...and help that way. He seems to me to be a very passionate, dedicated and intelligent man...doing good work. If my results are quite positive, it will set the family's (both immediate and family in spirit!) a little more at ease. Like I say, I'm living a life of passion and accept any results that are consequent. It's all good.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

One thing I get from those videos is Brian is pretty certain of what he will or wants to find. Otherwise, I doubt he would be so sure of himself. So I guess Dave's and anyone elses will be short in some way and I'm not expecting otherwise. Will it change my mind?? Being I am fruitarian myself I would still need more to change me.

I also still would like to know what Brian would suggest to eat daily. He seems to advocate 5% protein, 5% fat and 90% carbs. Where do those carbs come from?? He says sprouts and vegetables but that would have to be in very large amounts I would think. Why is this part so hush-hush and hard to find info on??

activeinternet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> baltochef Wrote:
>
> > I realize that Dr. Clements feels that raw
> foodist
> > are deficient in the nutrients that we carry in
> > our blood..Perhaps if enough of us took his
> tests
> > the evidence might start to prove otherwise..
>
> Bruce,
> His point is that every diet is lacking in
> nutrients. Not just raw foodists. He is a
> proponent of raw food and believes it is the most
> healthy way to eat. He has been on raw food for
> decades. His belief is that diets other than raw
> food would be even more lacking in nurtients.
>
> THis debate was about the negative impact of too
> much fruit.

activeinternet

My apologies!!

Thanks for the clarification..I failed to read the entire original link..

Bruce

tanawana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing I get from those videos is Brian is
> pretty certain of what he will or wants to find.
> Otherwise, I doubt he would be so sure of himself.
> So I guess Dave's and anyone elses will be short
> in some way and I'm not expecting otherwise. Will
> it change my mind?? Being I am fruitarian myself I
> would still need more to change me.
>
> I also still would like to know what Brian would
> suggest to eat daily. He seems to advocate 5%
> protein, 5% fat and 90% carbs. Where do those
> carbs come from?? He says sprouts and vegetables
> but that would have to be in very large amounts I
> would think. Why is this part so hush-hush and
> hard to find info on??


Hi Tanawan,

Hi Tanawan,
He is certain that he will find deficiencies based numerous tests performed on the guests at Hippocrates.
The test results will come directly from Spectracell on their letterhead. They perform the analysis, while Brian gives the remedies for the deficiencies.

While I’m new to the raw food lifestyle, I have lunch there quite often, and I’m not hungry for the rest of the day. The sunflower sprouts and pea sprouts have plenty of calories and protein.

I agree that this info is not readily available. I will work on gathering this data, and will make it available. This may take several weeks, since he is heading to Europe to speak on Thursday, and will be there for the rest of the month. I’ll start this process next week and will post the info as I get it.

Its not that the info is hush hush, there has been no one at Hippocrates that was able to get this info on the web. I’ve taken the project on as a partner with him. Since, I run a web company; it seemed like a natural fit. Eventually, we want to have a site with thousand of Questions and Answers based upon their 50 years of experience, as well as lectures and much more. I’ve been there for about 3 months, 8 hours per week, and an only beginning to understand a small portion of what goes on there. I will kep the information flowing.

Here is a link on sunflower sprouts I found on Google. This is on their buffet every day and is a staple of their program. I’m looking for a calorie count and will post when I find out.

[kitchen-gardens.suite101.com]

Oh, boy, now I've gone and gotten all interested in this topic. Being new to the raw food lifestyle, I'll be watching this with sprouted breath to learn the results. I love and respect David for who he is as a person. And I thought the YouTube responses were gracious of Brian Clement (?) to give. His attitude did seem to be a bit off-putting at times, but I guess if your reputation is being smudged by others, you might be a little snide, too. I believe his offer with the tests is generous, as long as they're done honestly and with integrity. And, as long as his desire to post them on every raw food website he can find isn't done out of spite and gloating. I hope both sides are man enough to admit if they learn that they might be wrong about some things. To me, that is a sign of a true leader and a man whose advice I'd honor.

I hope this thread will grow a few more pages because I have questions I'd like to ask and I'm really hoping to find people with the patience, and caring, to answer them. Yes, I could buy everyone's books and read them to find the information, but that would take a long time and, frankly, since this topic/challenge was brought up on this forum, I'm hoping to find some answers here, too.

There is so much information about living and raw food that it can be overwhelming to those of us who are new. This information ranges from, "Listen to your body," to "Do not do this or this, but do that and that." Here are some of my questions and I would like to hear from people on all sides of this current issue/challenge and others in general. I already understand the "listen to your body" side of things and the "try several things and see what works for you." This would appear, to me, to be common sense, but I'd like to go a bit deeper. I want researched, documented information, not just opinions.

Now, to make clear immediately - I'm not stressed out about this. I'm not worried or concerned. That's not my point behind this. I'm asking my questions out of a sincere curiosity and a desire to learn. This thread has become the perfect avenue for that. So, advice to "relax" isn't necessary. That said, here are a few of my questions.

1. With all the studying that people have purportedly done over the decades, why isn't there more conclusive evidence that's more widely accepted? Could it be because different bodies have different needs and one size doesn't fit all? Instead, one side says "research shows this..." and the other side says, "no it doesn't, it shows this..." "Facts" and information are all over the charts. What's really going on? How much of this is sincere, honest research and how much of it is purely money making business?

2. If a person eats a balance of all kinds of whole, raw foods, it seems they would get the nutrients they need and live a pretty healthy life. Listening to your body and using common sense should be enough. Why isn't it? For fruitarians, what's wrong with vegetables? For the non-fruit people, fruit is a natural food packed with nutrients. What's wrong with eating it? In my view, God made both and God wouldn't feed His children poison or bad things. What's wrong with moderation on both sides?

3. Please give examples of 100% living and raw foodists who have lived to be over 100. Whether they were fruitarians, followed the Hippocrates Center diet or just plain ate 100% raw foods without following anyone's program. History shows so many people who ate cooked, fried and processed foods of all kinds living to ripe old ages. Some even smoked and drank. Some never ate fruits and veggies because they hated them. We have proof of these people, so I would be interested in verified documentation of people who lived longer, healthier lives by eating 100% raw.

4. Why all the extremes? When the world is so polluted that living as purely as possible can cause as many problems as eating cooked foods can, why get your body to such a pure state? If a person gets to the point that they can't eat anything that isn't raw, uncooked, organic, etc., and have to be sure they prepare all of their own meals, needing to bring their own meals with them wherever they go, just in case, what's the point? I don't want to be held prisoner by what I eat. I don't want my life to revolve around my food. Food, in my opinion, should give me health and support for the rest of the things I do with my life. There are aspects of the raw food life that seem quite limiting to me.

5. What's supposedly so wrong with the Hippocrates Center diet? I heard Brian Clements explain why he thinks it's great, but what's supposed to be wrong with it? Since there is no 100% right way to eat, why all this controversy between different types of raw foodists if it's not pride, ego and money? I have to make David the exception to this. He has always been caring and supportive of everyone's decisions and never said the way he eats is the best way and right for everyone. To me, this gives David more credibility. That, and David isn't trying to sell me a product. He freely offers his experience, time, advice and even time at his farm. If that's not sincerity and love, nothing is.

6. Statistics show that our soil has been depleted of so many natural nutrients that our food today isn't as nutrient-rich as it used to be. How does this play into the raw food lifestyle?

7. I hesitate to ask this because some will think I've gone daft. But, it's a real possibility and I'm thinking about the big picture, so here it goes. Do raw foodists have a contingency plan for when there are serious problems with raw foods? Bioterrorism is no longer a matter of "if" but "when." The bacteria and viruses that can be used to poison fresh food exists and sits in wait. What will raw foodists do then if their bodies react horribly to canned food? This may sound like an unreal situation to people, but so did many other such things that have become realities in our lives. Again, I'm not worried about this, I'm just thinking about it as a possibility. A curiosity. In such a disaster, those who eat cooked foods will be affected too, but they would have an easier time of it.

I'll stop there. That's plenty to start with. I'm really interested in this and would absolutely love to have as much of the confusion eliminated as possible. Eating naturally shouldn't have to be so difficult to understand.

Simple Living,

1. It looks like you are asking for scientific proof that the raw vegan lifestyle is a healthful lifestyle. The kind of research you are looking for cost millions of dollars to perform. Given that relatively few individuals have this kind of money to spend on research, and there is very little motivation for the large corporations who have this kind of money to actually do this research, very little research is done on the raw vegan diet.

2. There is no fruitarian who is saying vegetables are unhealthy. From what I gather, fruitarians like the way they feel and they like the health they get from the fruitarian lifestyle. If you want to eat vegetables, eat vegetables.

3, 4. No one is saying anyone needs to eat 100% raw vegan to be healthy. Health is more than diet.

5. The Hippocrates diet works for some people. They recommend 80% raw by volume, 20% cooked by volume, which works for a lot of people. For me, I like fruit, so Hippocrates wouldn't work for me.

6. Organic foods are not grown in mineral depleted soils. Depleted soils can easily be restored to health with rock dust and fresh compost.

7. Bioterrorism is more of a threat to cooked eaters rather than raw foodists. For example, I am not in the bit worried of being exposed to the anthrax bacteria, but most cooked foodist might be. Same is true of MRSA (antibiotic resistant staph bacteria).

Be curious to see what you come up with in the coming weeks activeinternet and thanks.

Bryan, I appreciate you so much. I've always enjoyed your outlook, your common sense and your straight-forwardness. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions, as ignorant as they might be. I've never been too proud to learn and my questions do come from a place of sincerity and not out of challenging anyone.

Your answers were helpful. I'm not looking so much for scientific proof, because my faith and trust certainly doesn't rest in science. What I'm hoping to find is even one or two pieces of small documentation, performed neutrally, that shows support for the raw food lifestyle being significantly healthier than eating cooked foods.

I appreciate your answer for questions 3 and 4 because this is one of the things that is confusing to me. There are so many people who insist that cooked foods are poison or toxic or altogether bad for you. They say things like, "Ever since man got a hold of fire, our diet has gone downhill." I'm not challenging that, I just haven't heard/seen anyone give any evidence of truth in those statements.

Perhaps it's a situation similar to many other things out there. That the extremists have the biggest mouths and are louder than other people, so they're heard the most often. It's usually those who are extremely for, or against, something that scream the loudest and give the most false impressions of what it means to do/be/eat something. (God knows that's the situation with being a Christian!) The extremes are what's confusing and overwhelming and it can be hard to sort that information out sometimes when you aren't familiar with the subject.

Your answer to number 6 is comforting. In my ignorance, I've never heard of rock dust and didn't know compost was so nutrient rich. I always thought it was organic recycling so it wasn't just thrown out with the trash. (I'm not afraid to be wrong. I'd rather learn and know better.)

As for number 7, I don't understand your reasoning regarding anthrax being more of a concern for those who cook their food. But I understand it enough, when combined with your other answers, to be content with it.

Still, there must be some known, vegan, raw foodists who have lived to be over 100. Some kind of information that they lived healthier, more vibrant lives than their cooked food counterparts. How else can all the claims to living healthier, longer lives be made?

At any rate, your answers begin to confirm what, to me, sounds like the most common sense regarding all of this. Eat what feels best for your body; those things that give you the most life, energy and fulfillment. Research is all fine and good and has its place, but it can't beat listening to your own body intuitively. The average person is their own expert when it comes to doing what's best for their own body, when they use wisdom and common sense.

In all honesty, the gurus and "experts" are really starting to tick me off. Give me your everyday man and woman on a forum like this any day of the week.

Thank you, Bryan, most sincerely.

Simple Living,

It is very possible for you to become your own guru. Start small, by eating more raw fruits and vegetables. As this becomes comfortable, incorporate more raw foods into the diet. Don't worry about getting to 100% before your body is ready. Let foods fall away, rather than pushing them away. If you remove a food from your diet before your mind/body/spirit is ready to let go of it, it will probably come back.

As you get more raw foods into your diet, you will find your sensitivity will increase, and you will get more and more feedback from your own body as to what is healthful or not healthful for you. As this happens, you no longer need any external authority as your body becomes its own authority. One thing that helped and still helps me get in touch with my body (because I used to totally live inside my head) is yoga. All the deep diaphragmatic breathing in yoga connected me to my body and increased my consciousness of what my body is feeling and experiencing.

As you improve your diet, also look to practice the healthful living habits that increase health. This means getting enough exercise, enough sleep, being in fresh air, nature, sunshine, being in loving relationships, and a acquiring a life free of fear, stress, worry, anxiety, self-judgment, etc.

Quote

Simple Living Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. With all the studying that people have
> purportedly done over the decades, why isn't there
> more conclusive evidence that's more widely
> accepted? Could it be because different bodies
> have different needs and one size doesn't fit all?
> Instead, one side says "research shows this..."
> and the other side says, "no it doesn't, it shows
> this..." "Facts" and information are all over the
> charts. What's really going on? How much of this
> is sincere, honest research and how much of it is
> purely money making business?

It would be great if everything was nailed down as far as eating goes. There are a lot of different opinions out there.

Quote

> 2. If a person eats a balance of all kinds of
> whole, raw foods, it seems they would get the
> nutrients they need and live a pretty healthy
> life. Listening to your body and using common
> sense should be enough. Why isn't it? For
> fruitarians, what's wrong with vegetables? For
> the non-fruit people, fruit is a natural food
> packed with nutrients. What's wrong with eating
> it? In my view, God made both and God wouldn't
> feed His children poison or bad things. What's
> wrong with moderation on both sides?

I eat a balanced raw diet that consists of "eating the rainbow" and eating a diversity of foods because different foods have different nutrients in them. I eat fruit, veggies, seeds, and coconuts.

Quote

> 3. Please give examples of 100% living and raw
> foodists who have lived to be over 100. Whether
> they were fruitarians, followed the Hippocrates
> Center diet or just plain ate 100% raw foods
> without following anyone's program. History shows
> so many people who ate cooked, fried and processed
> foods of all kinds living to ripe old ages. Some
> even smoked and drank. Some never ate fruits and
> veggies because they hated them. We have proof of
> these people, so I would be interested in verified
> documentation of people who lived longer,
> healthier lives by eating 100% raw.

The Bible says people used to live a thousand years. I think that may have changed when humans discovered fire and started cooking their foods.

Quote

> 4. Why all the extremes? When the world is so
> polluted that living as purely as possible can
> cause as many problems as eating cooked foods can,
> why get your body to such a pure state? If a
> person gets to the point that they can't eat
> anything that isn't raw, uncooked, organic, etc.,
> and have to be sure they prepare all of their own
> meals, needing to bring their own meals with them
> wherever they go, just in case, what's the point?
> I don't want to be held prisoner by what I eat. I
> don't want my life to revolve around my food.
> Food, in my opinion, should give me health and
> support for the rest of the things I do with my
> life. There are aspects of the raw food life that
> seem quite limiting to me.

I think it would take a long, long time to get so pure it would cause life threatening reactions to living in a polluted world. I base that opinion on my experience eating SAD food on the only two "slips" I have had since going all raw. Both slips did not involve eating any meat or dairy. Both times I ate some cooked food and felt OK afterward. Both slips occurred early in my raw journey the first happening about 5 weeks into raw and the other happening on day 95 of my journey. I am now on day 220 so maybe if I slipped now I might get sick ? Hopefully I will never find out.

Quote

> 5. What's supposedly so wrong with the
> Hippocrates Center diet? I heard Brian Clements
> explain why he thinks it's great, but what's
> supposed to be wrong with it? Since there is no
> 100% right way to eat, why all this controversy
> between different types of raw foodists if it's
> not pride, ego and money? I have to make David
> the exception to this. He has always been caring
> and supportive of everyone's decisions and never
> said the way he eats is the best way and right for
> everyone. To me, this gives David more
> credibility. That, and David isn't trying to sell
> me a product. He freely offers his experience,
> time, advice and even time at his farm. If that's
> not sincerity and love, nothing is.

I'm not familiar with Hippocrates Center diet.

Quote

> 6. Statistics show that our soil has been
> depleted of so many natural nutrients that our
> food today isn't as nutrient-rich as it used to
> be. How does this play into the raw food
> lifestyle?

Eating more organically grown foods can help as they have been shown to have more nutrients in them.

Quote

> 7. I hesitate to ask this because some will think
> I've gone daft. But, it's a real possibility and
> I'm thinking about the big picture, so here it
> goes. Do raw foodists have a contingency plan for
> when there are serious problems with raw foods?
> Bioterrorism is no longer a matter of "if" but
> "when." The bacteria and viruses that can be used
> to poison fresh food exists and sits in wait.
> What will raw foodists do then if their bodies
> react horribly to canned food? This may sound like
> an unreal situation to people, but so did many
> other such things that have become realities in
> our lives. Again, I'm not worried about this, I'm
> just thinking about it as a possibility. A
> curiosity. In such a disaster, those who eat
> cooked foods will be affected too, but they would
> have an easier time of it.

I would eat my lawn before I would eat something out of a can. I can't control terrorists but I can control my food choices. I will continue to make the healthiest choices I can for as long as I can. I keep the raw food lifestyle simple and easy with the only limitations being eating foods that are fresh, raw, vegan, and natural.

I realize I didn't answer your questions using science and my answers didn't address all of the issues in each question. My answers were limited to my experience and the way I do raw.

Some thoughts/opinions:

-By definition, that which is truly new has not been seen before. If nature/god had waited to evolve modern man (if you believe in that..heh..heh.) until she had already SEEN a long-term example of the success of such a species....and understood ALL the future ramifications........then man would never have happened. This is not how true 'quantum' leaps occur.

-It is often the case the people want to see a certain 'effect' or circumstance. Or a state....or a person....or an emotion....or a social status....or physical health status....before they will SUPPORT OTHERS. What if everyone stopped having an 'agenda' for others....no matter how noble....and started being joyful and supporting what OTHERS wanted? What kind of world would that be? Then joy would emerge in the INDIVIDUALS.....because of their giving....instead of closing off that energy.

-Wayne Dyer often says (definite paraphrase) would you rather be RIGHT or KIND? The answer (in a very personal way) is VERY telling. Don't you think?

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

activeinternet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Note to all.... The original thread is listed
> below. Those only reading this one, should refer
> to the post below for the full context of this
> topic. They really should be combined into 1
> thread for the correct context. Maybe the
> moderator can combine.
>
> [www.rawfoodsupport.com]
> Original Topic for reference
>
> Hello Everyone,
> We finally got the video response edited and
> placed on youtube. They now have a 10 minute
> limit, so it is in 2 parts...
>
> [ca.youtube.com] Part 1
> [ca.youtube.com] Part 2
>

[ca.youtube.com] Part 1 Updated

Bryan makes a good point about the soil. If the soil is too mineral-depleted, nothing will grow there (which granted, is a problem that happens as well), which is why there are techniques for increasing soil quality. I like this point because many conventional-holistic books will push supplementation for this reason---plants don't have as mnay nutrients as before, they say, so take your vitamins. But if people just increased fresh fruits and vegetables sufficiently, they would be getting hundered of times the nutrients that a SAD eater gets! It would dwarf any possible decrease in the nutrients of the soil.

I don't really understand the bioterrorism question. I think you can't do much about this except for have a healthy immune system. Fresh, raw foods are key for this--letting the body do what it does best.

Part of all the hype with certain deficiencies and why certain diets work better for some people, in my opinion, has a lot to do with the state of the body BEFORE going raw. What needs to heal? What resources does your body have to heal it? What resources has the body learned to make do with on a daily basis, especially while you're trying to accomplish all of this? What is your entire life history, emotional and physical? You know?

The real test of time will be when there are enough children being raised raw naturally... see what they need. What are the averages for people who haven't been prematurely cut off from breastfeeding, given cow's milk and processed baby food, going into atrocious school lunches, into beer-and-pizza college, then into adulthood? What does the body need when that light finally turns on?

I think because the most of us are HEALING from a very SAD start, this is the reason so many opinions are all over the place, but "listening to your own body" never fails. When we're all done with detox and on the raw for years, perhaps we'll see a norm surface.

EZ Rider, I'd rather eat my lawn, too! Except the only grass I have here is a man-made garden on top of a parking garage. I guess it's better than astro-turf?

Again, I want to say that eating raw, vegan food isn't something I'm stressing out about. I choose to do it and it works well for me! I'm just glad that my body has adapted so quickly to eating raw. I ate two cooked meals during this, my first week, and they both caused my stomach to hurt and I was very uncomfortable. There's no question in my mind that raw works or that I'm doing what's best for my body. ) I'm not even stressed about trying to find the optimal, or "best", foods for my body.

The questions I asked are strictly that, questions to learn and questions that I would think are natural for someone entering into the lifestyle. It's just an attempt to learn. Ultimately, it makes me feel better so that's why I do it.

EZ rider, thanks for your responses. As far as people in the Bible living a thousand years, God put a halt to that when people were ticking Him off. In Genesis 6:3, God said, "Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.” Shortly after He said this, it became the average lifespan. Later, in Psalm 90:10, Moses states that the general lifespan of people is 70 to 80 years.

I appreciate you answering according to your experience and knowledge. I appreciate you not faking answers to the rest of my questions. "I don't know," is a completely acceptable answer. I wish people realized that. "I don't know," doesn't make the issue null and void. It doesn't obliterate the answers and knowledge that people do have. There's so much pressure on people to be "perfect" in this world.

This is very interesting.
Both of you you are really putting
yourselves out there. I hope you
are also both willing to be kind
not right so we will see the "truth".
very interesting indeed.
have fun with it.
dc

simpleliving

As to your sixth question regarding the depletion of nutrients in the soil & the resultant nutrient content of the foods grown in those soils, Bryan is correct in that the generous application of various types of rock powders (greensand, granite dust, ground feldspar, Azomite, & others) along with equally generous applications of properly made compost will resurrect virtually any soil regardless of the original soil type, climate, etc..

Several decades ago John Jeavons & a team of students were able to take the extremely compacted soil of a formerly paved parking lot in California, and within a several year period turn that space into a incredibly bountiful garden..His current research being conducted in Willits, California is geared towards being able to garden & mini-farm with complete sustainability..That is, to be able to reach a point in gardening where a specific amount of land per adult human being will be able to not only provide all of the nutrient requirements for a vibrant, happy, athletic life (regardless of age); but that all of the soil's nutrient needs in the form of biomass for creating compost will also be able to be grown along side of the food for human consumption..With no depletion of the soil's nutrients..Regardless of climate..Google John Jeavons & Bountiful Gardens for more info..

If I understand the tenor of your seventh question you are asking what raw foodists will do if a weapon of mass destruction is released here in the USA (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter), & what the subsequent results of that weapon's release would have on a raw foodists ability to continue feeding themselves raw foods versus a person that eats cooked food..Assuming, of course, that you survived the results of the weapon's release..As others have mentioned, a healthy immune system is the best defense against any disease, natural or man-made..Being raw would seen to be a definite plus in this type of situation..

As I see the question, it is not only the possibility of a weapon of mass destruction being unleashed on an unsuspecting population; but the effects of a serious natural disaster such as Hurricanes Katrina & Rita on the Gulf Coast, or a large earthquake in the Midwest (New Madrid earthquake fault) or California (any number of different earthquake faults)..As we have seen over the past two years our government is more concerned with lining the pockets of the men & women that financially supported the election of our president, than it is in helping it's citizens rebuild their lives & get back on their feet..

If a major catastrophe, natural or man-made, were to disrupt the production of food or the transportation system for that food, then all citizens would be in big trouble..Fresh produce would quickly disappear from grocery stores in the affected areas..As we saw in New Orleans, civil obedience would disappear, anarchy would take over, & it would be everyone for themselves..

Your question, simpleliving, as to whether or not raw foodists could revert to eating cooked foods after a long-term period of being raw, seems to me to be a very sensible one..In the aftermath of a disaster, where there was a mid to long-term disruption in the food supply, anyone with fresh food in a home garden or on a farm would have to face the very real possibility of deciding whether or not they were willing to defend themselves, their families, & their food from individuals, & or a mob, bent on taking that food away from them..

I see this possibility as a more likely scenario, than the possible contamination from nuclear fallout, biological contamination, or chemical contamination..

Regardless of the scenario that resulted in the disruption of the food supply, as a raw foodist I would be faced with the decision of what to do if there was no fresh raw food to eat..Revert to eating cooked food??..Forage for wild foods??..What if everything was contaminated??..Soil, plants, water??..

You have raised some very interesting questions in your post simpleliving..I have been considering many of these questions myself..Thank you for articulating them..

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 04:18PM by baltochef.

1, There's a debate as to how bad dietary glycotoxins (they arise from
cooking food) really are. Healthy kidneys remove 90% of them. Nobody
knows for certain how much damage the other 10% does. In rodents, restricting
glycotoxins by 50% extends lifespan by up to 20%. Some studies suggest
more protection from cancers by raw vegetables compared to cooked and more
protection from type II diabetes from less cooking. Raw foodists have better antioxidant status and lower IGF-1 levels, also thought to be related to
cancer risks. There is evidence but you have to look for it in papers.

The evidence suggests to me that raw is better but not 100% better than a
cooked food diet but much less than that, i.e. on a good cooked diet if
you make it to 100 you might have gotten to 110 if raw. I am mostly but
not 100% raw. Beware of absolutes, where is the evidence?

2. For fruitarians, some don't want to destroy the plant, some want the
lowest impact lifestyle, and some just don't like greens. For the anti-
fruit crowd, I can't really say as I don't get it and can't find any
substantial evidence for their claims.

3. Don't know of any.

4. Some people gravitate towards extremes, but that doesn't mean it's
right for you.

5. 20% cooked by volume might be 90% by calories. This formula is too
simple and easily abused.

6. When you give something back to the soil, it gets richer. We should
not be supporting big agribusiness if we have the option.

7. Bioterrorism can compromise all of our food, not just raw food or
cooked food. All foods start out raw. They don't all end up that way.
I suppose that the bigger the distribution center, the greater the
potential for tampering. As well, the more highly processed, the
greater the potential for abuse. So grow your own if you can.

rost, The bioterrorism part is a question I have about an attack on our food supply. Poisons and toxins that are released into the air, or water, and poison our food supply. Granted, if such an event happens, everyone will be affected, but it seems to me that those who cook their food might have a slightly easier time of it because canned food can be stored and used sparingly. Raw foodists eat fresh and raw foods, so what would they do then? It's not only bioterrorism though. That was just an example. Remember the ecoli outbreak with spinach? What if that became more widespread and the only safe way to prepare food was to cook it? Granted, if someone hasn't considered these things before, they will sound like silly extremism. But, in reality, these events are very possible. It's been said in the news that it's really just a matter of when, not "if" anymore. Given the possibilities of these types of scenarios, what would raw foodists do?

baltochef, As for the part of your post I quoted below, please see what I wrote to rost, above. I'm not talking about WMDs because, at that point, everyone will have all kinds of problems. I was asking about smaller scale events where life continues as normal, but there are interferences with fresh food/water supplies.

Quote

If I understand the tenor of your seventh question you are asking what raw foodists will do if a weapon of mass destruction is released here in the USA (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter), & what the subsequent results of that weapon's release would have on a raw foodists ability to continue feeding themselves raw foods versus a person that eats cooked food..Assuming, of course, that you survived the results of the weapon's release..As others have mentioned, a healthy immune system is the best defense against any disease, natural or man-made..Being raw would seen to be a definite plus in this type of situation..

Quote

As I see the question, it is not only the possibility of a weapon of mass destruction being unleashed on an unsuspecting population; but the effects of a serious natural disaster such as Hurricanes Katrina & Rita on the Gulf Coast, or a large earthquake in the Midwest (New Madrid earthquake fault) or California (any number of different earthquake faults)

Exactly. There are several scenarios that could play out in this regard.

Quote

Your question, simpleliving, as to whether or not raw foodists could revert to eating cooked foods after a long-term period of being raw, seems to me to be a very sensible one.

Thank you, Bruce! Thank you for clarifying what I was trying to ask, but you did it in a MUCH clearer way than I did! This is my question! If it were to become necessary, for whatever the reason or circumstance, how much of a problem would it be for a raw foodist to convert back to cooked food? One can say they'd rather eat their lawn, but, I have a feeling that if the situation were to become reality, a can of baked beans would start to look rather good. It's easy to hold to our convictions when they're not put to the test. (No offense, EZ rider!)


I really appreciate the link to the gardening articles! I absolutely love gardening. Gardening and nutrition are two of my passions. I love them! Unfortunately, I live in an apartment and my opportunities to garden are non-existent. I'm moving into a very sunny apartment at the end of April and I would LOVE to find a way to do some indoor organic gardening. I'm not opposed to buying special lighting. To be able to grow my own tomatoes would make me happy! I just don't know if you can grow tomatoes indoors.

Well, if everything gets toxic, and we have to cook our food to live, then I guess we can deal with it when it happens. But I wouldn't pre-emptively do anything, I don't think you can.

Also, not that this counters what you said, but the E. Coli outbreak was on non-organic spinach, which shows the importance of sustainable, safe agricultural methods. Our agricultural system is not safe or sustainable at all, especially with all the mono-agriculture, and that does make it very vulnerable for attack. Community gardens, CSA, permaculture are all greta things for raw fooders to be involved in if they can.

Not to get too far off topic, but it's a little known fact that all soils contain E.Coli bacteria, salmonella bacteria, & other organisms that are potentially harmful to humans..

Plants grown in nutrient rich healthy soils that have a high humus content have almost no possibility of transferring these diseases to humans..

A healthy human with a strong immune system could in all likelihood eat the humus rich soil itself with little chance of getting sick..

Virtually every bacterial outbreak over the past 50 years can be laid at the door of poor sanitation..

Most of these outbreaks are due to fecal matter contamination..Either from an employee not properly washing their hands after a bowel movement, or from some kind of cross contamination in the process animal slaughtering..

The balance of the outbreaks that are not attributed to fecal matter contamination of some sort are usually the result of a food service of some description not keeping foods, especially cooked foods, at the proper temperatures..

Improperly cooling foods off before refrigeration is the #1 reason for food sickness..Tens of thousands of minor cases occur every year that are not reported to health authorities..The #2 reason for food sickness is not keeping foods at the proper temperature while these foods are in a steam table..Mild food poisoning is often mistaken for indigestion, colds, & flu symptoms..

As a professional chef I could not even begin to list the number of times in my career that I have seen otherwise intelligent chefs & cooks make the stupidest, most ignorant mistakes when it comes to handling cooked food..And don't even get me started on cross contamination between raw poultry & all other foods..

It is the least educated people working the lowest paying jobs that are almost always assigned to some of the most important tasks in factories & kitchens in regards to the need to consitently observe proper sanitary practices..

rost0037

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the E.Coli spinach outbreak that you are referring to was the result of cross contamination from another source, not the fact that the spinach was conventionally versus organically grown..

Bruce

simpleliving

Check out the Peaceful Valley Farm & Garden Supply Catalog & online website..They are the #1 source for organic tools, seeds, equipment, etc. when it comes to organic..Doesn't matter whether you live in an apartment & container garden, or whether you own a 10,000 acre farm..

[www.GrowOrganic.com]

Yep, the E. Coli found in the spinach was from animal sources, of course. Organic farms are required (via USDA requirements) to compost mature for a certain amt of time at certain temps, which helps kill bacteria.