5:49 min vid

[www.youtube.com]

Lets put the Olive oil myth to death. It started with the Mediterranean diet. The heaslth benefits of fruits and vegetables were incorrectly attributed to the SNAKE OLIVE OIL THAT COULD BE MARKETED, SOLD, AND EXPORTED from useless olives.

The Postprandial Effect of Components of the Mediterranean Diet on Endothelial Function

[auth.cardiosource.org]

"CONCLUSIONS In terms of their postprandial effect on endothelial function, the beneficial components of the Mediterranean and Lyon Diet Heart Study diets appear to be antioxidant-rich foods, including vegetables, fruits,"

"Current study. Contrary to part of our hypothesis, our
study found that omega-9 (oleic acid)-rich olive oil impairs
endothelial function postprandially. The change in FMD
correlated with the change serum in triglycerides, so the
effect probably results from triglyceride-containing lipoproteins.
The mechanism appears to be oxidative stress because
the decrease in FMD was reduced (71%) by the concomitant
administration of vitamins C and E."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2014 09:13PM by Panchito.

The latest scientific research shows that olive oil is one of the worst aging foods in the planet (super high AGE - Advanced Glycation End Products)

[marshfieldceliac.weebly.com]

(numbers = AGE kU/100 g)

Oil, olive 11,900
Oil, sesame (Asian Gourmet) 21,680

compare it with:

Apple, Macintosh 13
Banana 9
Cantaloupe 20
Dates, Sun-Maid California 60
Carrots, canned 10



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2014 09:29PM by Panchito.

Really damning stuff about adding the `so called' good oils to the diet


Even more damning of adding fats to the diet and the dubious olive oil is the 5 minute presentation by the highly regarded Dr Caldwell Esselstyn. Basically he said it contributes to heart disease and some cancers over the long term. NOW...many of the studies showing olive oil is beneficial were only done over the short term, however recent studies presented by Dr Esselstyn indicate show that adding oils is very dangerous. And yes, l did look up the studies and it appears that adding oils to the diet are as bad as animal fats over the long term. And if you think a raw food diet is going to help, this doesn't appear to be the case at all because they studied Green Monkeys (they eat raw btw) and added oil to their diet and the results were not promising. They also studies humans and they didn't fare so well when they added olive oil to the diet either. Various studies have now been done and they are all indicating the same long term problems.


No Oil -- Not Even Olive Oil!
[www.youtube.com]

The studies are referenced in Dr Esselstyn's article. The studies are quite tricky, but when you study them carefully you see that this man is correct.
[www.heartattackproof.com]



We also have Dr Brian Clement mentioning that adding oils look to be contributing to prostrate cancer and lowering oxygen levels in the body also. Dr Esselstyn is now working with Dr Clement.

The question l always ask myself is...why would you extract oil from a food and then add it in food again??? That doesn't make sense on so many levels. Why would you alter nature's synergy by adding in an oil with concentrated nutrients?

And yes, the heart research center seems to be recommending a diet that contributes to CVD.

"NO OIL!!!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2014 11:04PM by The Sproutarian Man.

I think eating oil is somekind of a cultural habit that started when people did not know what to do with olives (olive juice = olive oil). now they got something to fry with and a source of calories (olives are hard unedible without processing). Then the marketing campaing came about when people looked for sources of money in modern societies. You need More olive oil to be healthy, blah blah. People get away saying the same about cheese by saying cheese is good for the teeth. It is about cultural beliefs. The dominant culture rates the advancement of other cultures by how close they are to them (thinking they are the greatest). If they eat olive oil is because it is the greatest of course. Maybe the olive oil itself gain some mental control because of their gut bacteria got used to the calories of the oil and they are playing the ropes in an unconcious war of foods sources



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 12:39AM by Panchito.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what about oil that settles ontop of sprouted
> ground seeds? Olives can't be the only source of
> oil.

That is fine. Also remember that sprouting converts much of that fat into fatty acids.

Another thing that appears to be contributing to CAD is eating lots of fruit...increasing bad cholesterol levels. From what l can gather Durian Rider has experienced this problem recently with his blood tests. I have some absoutely shocking files on fruit and l need to spend time to investigating this much much more, but it's not looking good for high fruit and high fat diets.

I was always a believer that a higher fat diet isn't such a bad thing, but the latest research has shocked me to the core, this seems to be indeed a problem, and there are now the longer term studies to prove it.

Make Yourself Heart Attack Proof
[www.youtube.com]

And now we have Dr Gregor talking about how a bunch of vegans have very high cholesterol levels and are having heart attacks for various reasons. It is absolutely shocking and we need to take notice of this stuff and remove the blinkers from our eyes.

The most important factor in health

And lets not forget, the most important factor in health is our `attitude', more important than diet according to clinical observation by Dr Clement done over a 40 year period with well over 100,000 people.

No matter how good the diet consumed, if one is bitter, mean spirited, abusive towards others and vicious...then it doesn't matter how good the diet is. In Dr Clement's vast experience, these mean spirited people never properly heal regardless of how good their diet is and how much they exercise. Being happy and having a good attitude towards others is crucial. The mean folk may think they are hurting others in the game of one-upmanship, but they know not what they do because they are hurting themselves more than they realise. Brian's observations make sense because it is common sense.

If we have a calm mind, act mature (no one-upmanship) be nice and be happy, we are going to be in better health and heal much better when a good diet is consumed.


And please folks....lets not be so fast to rubbish this idea about oils. Lets look at the longer term studies before we rubbish the idea/studies. We want to move forward and try to find out the various issues with the vegan diet...we want to be open to what the newer studies are saying so we can make better informed decisions on our diet.

Once again, attitude is the most important factor because we will have health problems and won't heal near as well if our attitude is poor.

Be well, be nice, eat well and exercise well. It all counts.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So when you say fats, you mean crude fats not
> converted into fatty acid yet. [/quote]


Yes, high fats foods like unsproputed tahini that has all that oil at the top of the jars. We want to get a nice balance - not too much fat or too little, but very high fatty acids.


>
> Yeah, I can get that a high crude fat diet would
> be bad for the health. However what about high
> "fatty acid" diet? And specifically a 'limited
> carb' mild ketogenic diet?

I often wonder about the low carbs in the sproutarian diet also (carbs in the diet convert to other nutrients), but it doesn't seem to be a problem, however l am always open to listening if there are problems. Do l lose energy when consuming less carbs? No. I am a big believer in a high predigested protein fatty acid diet (keeps cravings away and balanced blood sugar) and lower carbs does seem to work for many sprout diets/HHI diet etc.



>
> My guess is though IMO if one is doing a high
> sprouts diet one doesn't even need so much fatty
> acids when compared to a crude fat diet.

EXACTLY!!! Sprouting does increase fatty acid content of the foods. If you sprout the seeds you are well on your way. Fermentation also increases fatty acid content. Feed that brain those fatty acids and try to have the chia sprouts regularly.



> But like
> I said.. when one is in ketosis the body feeds on
> fats or fatty acids primarily. So I guess free
> fatty acids would be tons more healthy than crude
> fat.

Oh yes.


>This might be useful in times when good
> sources of carbs are scarce...

Could be.




>
> Would a "mild ketogenic diet" high in fatty acids
> as opposed to high crude fat be also 'healthy'?

It does appear to be that way.




>
> Im also saying this because there seems to be a
> lot of studies that suggest a mild ketogenic diet
> can be beneficial.

Yes, various folks are now coming around on this thinking. I am very suspicious of the high carb diets, l don't think they lead to any good. You can live o.k on them, but l think there are better ways.

I'll tell you something interesting Storm.

If people think a 100% raw diet is going to be the sole healer, they are greatly mistaken. When l went 100% raw sproutarian and ate the algaes and seaweeds l didn't heal hardly at all for years. I had great energy and felt more spiritual, but my organs and skin were dreadful. Years on a raw sproutarian diet did NOTHING for my skin, in fact, l looked worse than your SAD eater (heartbreaking). I had a face full of blotches, my digestion was poor, my liver was poor and my lymph system was a disaster.

It was only when l started juicing large amounts, got enlightenment and had a brilliant attitude did things start to turn around. It was amazing...l had a brilliant diet yet l wasn't healing. When l started doing everything and working on my attitude did l really start to heal quickly.

I never had any real energy until l did the raw sproutarian diet. I had poor health much of my life. Had extreme bad stress and hated everyone before raw. I was bitter and savage. The entire lifestyle made me reborn again. But even more important was coming to the realisation that l know absolutely nothing about much...that humbled me, but that's what true enlightenment brings. When you put it all togeather you have a winning formulae.

Eat fresh, have a good attitude and exercise. I know the importance of this more than most probably do. A nutritious fresh all raw diet is only ONE PART of it. Mix with positive people, meditate, sungaze, eat raw, exercise, juice, blend for no longer than 30 seconds, greatly reduce fruit intake, keep fat intake on the low side of moderate. Have no fear (that's a killer) and learn to love all regardless of their behaviour (we all have our challenges to be overcome).

We are all good people inside, but sometimes we can get lost. No matter, we can do much to change our lives so they become full of sunshine.

Electrical frequency is the true healer, not the food. Non-fresh foods reduce the electrical freqnecies needed, and a bad attitude also seems to cause dissonance in the frequencies we need to sustain a healthy body.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 04:48AM by The Sproutarian Man.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, well, you did say that you improved when you
> started juicing greens. Maybe that helped to
> change it all also? [/quote]


Yes. Blending does damage electrical frequency, and l have given decent explanations in the past as to why this is the case.


>
> I dont think I can ever really fathom how people
> say to be positive when it's simply impossible
> since it's a result of stress.

I've been there Storm. My life was shocking and impossible to make better for many years. I hated my life. Stress, depression...had it all. Just wanted to die because l was full of emotional pain. Abused from pillar to post. I am so glad my life was aweful...it made me who l am today, but l never thought that at the time. Hindsight is incredible, l had to go through it so l could feel compassion for others and be humbled.


>
> For example, if one is full of pain, and also
> lacking the nutritional requirements to even be
> happy (ever heard that lack of nutrients can cause
> depression, lack of endocrine balance etc?) and
> the mind becomes lost, how then will changing the
> attitude help other than to simply allow health to
> even begin?
>
> That's just me.
>
> Call me negative.
>
> Call me a victim.
>
> Call me a parasite.
>
> There is a mind-body connection. But how come
> people forget a body-mind connection?


People have forgotten who they really are...they have lost enlightenment. When you become enlightened you are supposed to get serotonin flood into the brain, you become balanced and you become blissful.



>
> At some level, people are weak and no amount of
> thinking can change that.


Thinking is a waste of time, it is our jailer. There comes a time where you outgrow thinking because it is low level stuff. I mainly access these days...all my health stuff is accessed, l rarely think about anything now.



---------

Ann Wigmore said after 35 years of being raw "my life is only just beginning". That's exactly how l feel too. I am only just getting started. I improve year after year. People like to boast how they have been raw for 25 years...SO WHAT!!! We are all on a journey and we are only just getting started.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 05:40AM by The Sproutarian Man.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Enlightenment seems to be like a transmission of
> energy.

Yes.

>
> Which means that enligthenment is probably
> dependent on that transmission of energy, right?
> Unless one 'gets it' on their own? Is this even
> possible?

People can get it on their own, but it is very very difficult in this low level world. Too many things are interfering.


>
> To me it seems like a lot of people seem to not
> know what enlightenment means.
Yes. It is one of the most abused and misunderstood words ever used. New agers are fond of using it and always talk about elightenment and being "as one", yet most wouldnt' have the foggiest idea what they are talking about. They just read books and internet chatter and regurgitate what sounds good. You always know the fakers from the real deals.



> Is it, like a state
> of being highly superconductive.


Yes. 100% spot on.



>
> You dont have to answer. I just wanted to add that
> I guess.. it seems like enlightenment often
> requires real live transmission, and this requires
> 'enabling psychophysiologies'.


Hmmm, not so sure about that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 06:05AM by The Sproutarian Man.

You have much special awareness Storm. You are in a transition period, and these periods can be very very tough. I can well relate.

Your sunshine will come Storm, it will come.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THeSt0rm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what about oil that settles ontop of sprouted
> > ground seeds? Olives can't be the only source
> of
> > oil.
>
> That is fine. Also remember that sprouting
> converts much of that fat into fatty acids.
>
> Another thing that appears to be contributing to
> CAD is eating lots of fruit...increasing bad
> cholesterol levels. From what l can gather Durian
> Rider has experienced this problem recently with
> his blood tests. I have some absoutely shocking
> files on fruit and l need to spend time to
> investigating this much much more, but it's not
> looking good for high fruit and high fat diets.
>
> I was always a believer that a higher fat diet
> isn't such a bad thing, but the latest research
> has shocked me to the core, this seems to be
> indeed a problem, and there are now the longer
> term studies to prove it.
>
> Make Yourself Heart Attack Proof
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> And now we have Dr Gregor talking about how a
> bunch of vegans have very high cholesterol levels
> and are having heart attacks for various reasons.
> It is absolutely shocking and we need to take
> notice of this stuff and remove the blinkers from
> our eyes.


So could one technically be on a low-fat diet while eating considerable amounts of nuts and seeds if they're sprouted? Can you post some of the long-term high-fat studies?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 04:08PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THeSt0rm Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > what about oil that settles ontop of sprouted
> > > ground seeds? Olives can't be the only source
> > of
> > > oil.
> >
> > That is fine. Also remember that sprouting
> > converts much of that fat into fatty acids.
> >
> > Another thing that appears to be contributing
> to
> > CAD is eating lots of fruit...increasing bad
> > cholesterol levels. From what l can gather
> Durian
> > Rider has experienced this problem recently
> with
> > his blood tests. I have some absoutely shocking
> > files on fruit and l need to spend time to
> > investigating this much much more, but it's not
> > looking good for high fruit and high fat diets.
>
> >
> > I was always a believer that a higher fat diet
> > isn't such a bad thing, but the latest research
> > has shocked me to the core, this seems to be
> > indeed a problem, and there are now the longer
> > term studies to prove it.
> >
> > Make Yourself Heart Attack Proof
> > [www.youtube.com]
> >
> > And now we have Dr Gregor talking about how a
> > bunch of vegans have very high cholesterol
> levels
> > and are having heart attacks for various
> reasons.
> > It is absolutely shocking and we need to take
> >¬ice of this stuff and remove the blinkers
> from
> > our eyes.
>
>
> So could one technically be on a low-fat diet
> while eating considerable amounts of nuts and
> seeds if they're sprouted? Can you post some of
> the long-term high-fat studies?


To be within the 10% fat from calorie recommendations by Drs Caldwell Esselstyn/Brian Clement, we still need to avoid eating huge amounts of nuts and seeds and still need to rely upon sprouted beans and some grains (that's why l eat a lot of lentil sprouts and try to eat regular grains to alter the ratio fats/calories), this takes time to get the diet right, and probiotics and digestive enzymes do play an important role in breaking down the anti-nutrients in the grains/legumes. That being said, the two day sprouted high oil content seeds can be reduced by an average of about 20%, and the fat content of legumes can be reduced far more to almost insignificant quantities while increasing fatty acids. The occasional fermenting sprouted nuts and sprouted seeds will also lower the fats and increase fatty acids and balance protein better.

The science is extremely complicated and many of the best studies are not available online, but here are just a few. It will probably bring up more questions than answers because it does take a long time to really get an understanding of what is going on during the sprouting period.

I'll try and keep it as simple as possible, but evenstill, it is complicated.

The breakdown of lipid reserves in the endosperm of germinating castor beans

K M Marriott, D H Northcote
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Nutritional changes in germinated legumes and rice varieties

1Megat Rusydi, M.R., Noraliza, C.W., Azrina, A. and 2Zulkhairi, A
[www.ifrj.upm.edu.my]



Something more simple in a nut shell:

Changes in oil, sugars and nitrogenous components during germination of sunflower seeds, Helianthus annuus

R. Balasaraswathi, S. Sadasivam
[link.springer.com]


Effects of germination on chemical composition and functional
properties of sesame (Sesamum indicum L.) seeds

Tae-Shik Hahma, Sung-Jin Park, Y. Martin Lo
[lo.umd.edu]



I still have many studies to look up and order from the library, and it will take years to get all the ones l need because there are many of them and the particular studies are very scarce. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack....can take a week of evening searching just to find one study....very taxing work.


I won't post anymore here, but hopefully this gives just a little clue as to what's going on during sprouting.¬

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 10:00PM by The Sproutarian Man.

sproutarian man wrote
> > > Another thing that appears to be contributing
> > to
> > > CAD is eating lots of fruit...increasing bad
> > > cholesterol levels. From what l can gather
> > Durian
> > > Rider has experienced this problem recently
> > with
> > > his blood tests.

his blood tests were fine.
show your evidence.


> > >
> > > And now we have Dr Gregor talking about how a
> > > bunch of vegans have very high cholesterol
> > levels
> > > and are having heart attacks for various
> > reasons.

this is an irresponsible statement.
the reason is when you use the word vegan
there is not ONE diet included there.
there are healthy and unhealthy vegan diets.

what if i said, some sproutarians were showing signs
of coronary disease? there diet consists of potato chips
and sprouts. what would you think?

>>remove the blinkers
> > from
> > > our eyes.

what you need to do is not be an amateur scientist.
what you need to do is not make generalizations about dietary definitions
like vegan or high fruit, as if all vegans eat the same diet
or all high fruit people at the same diet.

My question is/was - if oils are 'bad', what about eating maybe a tablespoon or two of nut/seed butters daily? Is that too much?

TSM - what do you think of the Sprouted Nut/Seed Butters that are available? Are they better than just plain raw nut/seed butters? Again, how much would you advise daily - is two tablespoons too much do you think?

If you only sprouted them the tiniest bit, then let them get dried out - not so they're all shriveled up, but just so they're not wet at all - and then put them in the blender or food processor until the mixture was very smooth, they might be more of a sesame tahini consistency, more 'oily'.

I observed D.R's blood results, and two things did stand out. Both his serum phosphate levels and his serum bicarbonate levels, and indeed they did have an * placed next to those in the paperwork.

From my understanding his tests does indeed indictate a low phosphate in the blood at 1.78, but normal ranges should be between 2.4 - 4.1 mg/dL. This low level indictates either:

Hypercalcemia,
Hyperparathyroidism
Very poor nutrition
Too little dietary intake of phosphate
Vitamin D (low) [1]


His serum bicarbonate levels were reasonably high at 36, but normal ranges should be between 23 - 29. This high level could indicate either:

Cushing syndrome
Hyperaldosteronism

These things appear to be related to adrenal gland disorders[2].


I don't think the doctors would have specially marked these two things in D.R's blood test if it wasn't a concern.


Regarding the cholesterol levels....they are o.k. But from what l can gather from blog talk they have increased over time[3]. It will be interesting to see what the future holds in this regard.


[1]
[www.nlm.nih.gov]


[2]
[www.nlm.nih.gov]


[3]
[30bananasadaysucks.com]



Now l know we can't be too sure about comments made on blogs, but it is interesting to read about vegans claiming to have high cholesterol on vegan diets, and indeed Dr Caldwell Esselstyn mentions it in relation to Dr Gregor's findings. And the science in relation to the excessive sugar consumption of fructose has been linked with increased LDL and total cholesterol [4][5]

And once again...D.R's blood tests do seem to indicate some issues.


[4]How bad is fructose?
George A Bray[/b]
[ajcn.nutrition.org]

[5]Very High Fructose Intake Increases Serum LDL-Cholesterol and Total Cholesterol: a Meta-Analysis of Controlled Feeding Trials
Yu Hui Zhang, Tao An et al[/b]
[jn.nutrition.org]


Now, l did say "linked" and not `proven', but if the blog quoted above (30BAD sucks) is correct in reporting a markedly increased cholesterol level, then this will be something interesting to watch in the future.

Folks...all we want to do is find out what is really going on with diet so we can plan it more effectively.


Last statement
I am sure people will say that the fructose studies are not done properly because fructose has been studied in isolation. That is true and it may give a false result, BUT lets keep this in the back of our mind and continue to observe vegan diets and their effects on people over the long run. We know something not so good is occuring with these diets, so we need to carefully observe people and read the literiture so we can find solutions to the problems.

This sugar and high fat thing is just one of many many issues regarding the vegan diet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 11:55PM by The Sproutarian Man.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 5:49 min vid
>
> [www.youtube.com]
> ed&v=lbALgjmZUek

I can see why this guy got 119 thumbs down and disabled his comments. A registered dietitian with tons of letters after his name that hasn't yet learned how to pronounce satiating? I'm embarrassed for him but really, panchito, his target audience just wants to lose weight so the title of his video meant something different than what you are using it for...

KidRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is/was - if oils are 'bad', what about
> eating maybe a tablespoon or two of nut/seed
> butters daily? Is that too much?


It depends on the diet. If a diet is well planned that is a good level.

>
> TSM - what do you think of the Sprouted Nut/Seed
> Butters that are available? Are they better than
> just plain raw nut/seed butters?

Far better to have sprouted seed/nut butters for many reasons.

>Again, how much
> would you advise daily - is two tablespoons too
> much do you think?

Depends on the diet. If you have a high fruit diet then more seeds can be eaten. If you have alot of sprouted legumes/grains in the diet then more sprouted seeds can be eaten.

If you sprout nuts and seeds you can eat more of them, but you still don't want to overdo it.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im not sure if TSM is coming back...


I wanted to do this thread and go away. I found it very important to spill the beans on the recent findings on the dangers of high fat diets because people are not understanding the problems except a few peole here. I am not just giving opinions, l am giving hard scientific evidence which is clearly showing a problem. Until recently the studies have been misleading due to their short duration, but now the data is much more convincing due to their long term duration. Dr Caldwell Esselstyn is a doctor's doctor and a very smart man, and his words shouldn't be taken lightly. Check out his video again and look up the studies, this is ground breaking information and it can't be ignored, it is the big daddy of information regarding high oil diets. I nearly fell off my chair when l made the discovery, that's why l had to force myself to make some posts in this thread to add extra weight to Panchito's posts.

I am going to continue to research more into high fat and fruit diets because it is not looking so good for such diets. And given the poor results many experience on the natural hygiene diet, something less than desirable is going on. And to say that we were frugivours is an iffy scientific idea too because originally fruits were much different from what they were today, many fruits were quite woody, starchy and seemingly inedible according to scientists. I don't care what scientists say about teeth markings etc, l am talking about the earliest fruit that wasn't hybridised. It doesn't seem that fruit has ever been desirable or natural like the natural hygienists claim. All l am doing is bringing up ideas, some science and some questions in the hope that people think more about diet. Lets try to open our eyes, start questioning things and think...that's all l want to do, getting people thinking and doing good research so they can make up their own mind. We can poo poo ideas, but lets look into things first and think alittle before we write ideas off. Lets pull down the defenses and look at things in an unbias perspective.

>I observed D.R's blood results, and two things did stand out. Both his serum phosphate levels and his serum bicarbonate levels, and indeed they did have an * placed next to those in the paperwork.


That was not the content of your original post that I commented on, which was cholesterol. And as of now there are no problems with that, which is not what you stated below.

(tag DR)> CAD is eating lots of fruit...increasing bad
> > > cholesterol levels. From what l can gather
> > Durian
> > > Rider has experienced this problem recently
> > with
> > > his blood tests.

your statement is misleading and invalid based on the facts.


Your comments on the other two numbers are reasonable, but we may note that his dietary intake is filled with cooked and canned/bottled items now and would not be considered a healthy diet by me. And you can not therefore extract "high fruit eater" from his diet and make any claims as far as I am concerned.

>Regarding the cholesterol levels....they are o.k. But from what l can gather from blog talk they have increased over time[3]. It will be interesting to see what the future holds in this regard.

right. so your statement above (tag DR) was not true.


>Now l know we can't be too sure about comments made on blogs, but it is interesting to read about vegans claiming to have high cholesterol on vegan diets, and indeed Dr Caldwell Esselstyn mentions it in relation to Dr Gregor's findings.


would depend on the diet and you cannot make any sweeping generalizations.


>And the science in relation to the excessive sugar consumption of fructose has been linked with increased LDL and total cholesterol [4][5]

false.

>Last statement
I am sure people will say that the fructose studies are not done properly because fructose has been studied in isolation. That is true and it may give a false result

true. so then don't make your above false statement.

duplicate post.....(computer is doing funny things)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 01:16AM by The Sproutarian Man.

duplicate post..........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 01:15AM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The most important factor in health
>
> And lets not forget, the most important factor in
> health is our `attitude', more important than diet
> according to clinical observation by Dr Clement
> done over a 40 year period with well over 100,000
> people.
>
> No matter how good the diet consumed, if one is
> bitter, mean spirited, abusive towards others and
> vicious...then it doesn't matter how good the diet
> is. In Dr Clement's vast experience, these mean
> spirited people never properly heal regardless of
> how good their diet is and how much they exercise.
> Being happy and having a good attitude towards
> others is crucial. The mean folk may think they
> are hurting others in the game of one-upmanship,
> but they know not what they do because they are
> hurting themselves more than they realise. Brian's
> observations make sense because it is common
> sense.
>
> If we have a calm mind, act mature (no
> one-upmanship) be nice and be happy, we are going
> to be in better health and heal much better when a
> good diet is consumed.
>
>
> And please folks....lets not be so fast to rubbish
> this idea about oils. Lets look at the longer term
> studies before we rubbish the idea/studies. We
> want to move forward and try to find out the
> various issues with the vegan diet...we want to be
> open to what the newer studies are saying so we
> can make better informed decisions on our diet.
>
> Once again, attitude is the most important factor
> because we will have health problems and won't
> heal near as well if our attitude is poor.
>
> Be well, be nice, eat well and exercise well. It
> all counts.

Which comes first? The diet or the attitude?
If you are eating a poor diet you are going to have a bad attitude
If you have a bad attitude...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 01:20AM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The most important factor in health
> >
> > And lets not forget, the most important factor
> in
> > health is our `attitude', more important than
> diet
> > according to clinical observation by Dr Clement
> > done over a 40 year period with well over
> 100,000
> > people.
> >
> > No matter how good the diet consumed, if one is
> > bitter, mean spirited, abusive towards others
> and
> > vicious...then it doesn't matter how good the
> diet
> > is. In Dr Clement's vast experience, these mean
> > spirited people never properly heal regardless
> of
> > how good their diet is and how much they
> exercise.
> > Being happy and having a good attitude towards
> > others is crucial. The mean folk may think they
> > are hurting others in the game of
> one-upmanship,
> > but they know not what they do because they are
> > hurting themselves more than they realise.
> Brian's
> > observations make sense because it is common
> > sense.
> >
> > If we have a calm mind, act mature (no
> > one-upmanship) be nice and be happy, we are
> going
> > to be in better health and heal much better when
> a
> > good diet is consumed.
> >
> >
> > And please folks....lets not be so fast to
> rubbish
> > this idea about oils. Lets look at the longer
> term
> > studies before we rubbish the idea/studies. We
> > want to move forward and try to find out the
> > various issues with the vegan diet...we want to
> be
> > open to what the newer studies are saying so we
> > can make better informed decisions on our diet.
>
> >
> > Once again, attitude is the most important
> factor
> > because we will have health problems and won't
> > heal near as well if our attitude is poor.
> >
> > Be well, be nice, eat well and exercise well.
> It
> > all counts.
>
> Which comes first? The diet or the attitude?
> If you are eating a poor diet you are going to
> have a bad attitude
> If you have a bad attitude...


Poor diets do not mean you are going to have a bad attitude.

regarding fructose....

What if I said, protease inhibitors, tannins, and phytates have bad effects on the body, therefore don't eat a lot of sprouts !

That's no different from the fructose stuff...(and don't try and get into the, "but tannins are good, or the amounts are so low, or whatever, that's not the point)

>I noticed he is also getting B12 measured from the blood, but this gives an inaccurate measurement for various reasons...it needs to be done via urine testing (the scientific reasons are complicated and l don't care to go into it at this moment).

no need to get into it, it's all covered on b12.com (uMMA)

>D.R is also having blood levels tested and this is a big mistake because it will always give higher readings than absorption levels. So basically his blood tests don't mean much because they are not measuring true nutrient levels as would be utilised by the body.

There are drawbacks, yes.
will you be submitting your true nutrient levels?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets put the Olive oil myth to death. It started
> with the Mediterranean diet. The heaslth benefits
> of fruits and vegetables were incorrectly
> attributed to the SNAKE OLIVE OIL THAT COULD BE
> MARKETED, SOLD, AND EXPORTED from useless olives.
>
>
> The Postprandial Effect of Components of the
> Mediterranean Diet on Endothelial Function
>
> [auth.cardiosource.org]
> ion/Post.aspx
>
> "CONCLUSIONS In terms of their postprandial effect
> on endothelial function, the beneficial components
> of the Mediterranean and Lyon Diet Heart Study
> diets appear to be antioxidant-rich foods,
> including vegetables, fruits,"
>
> "Current study. Contrary to part of our
> hypothesis, our
> study found that omega-9 (oleic acid)-rich olive
> oil impairs
> endothelial function postprandially. The change in
> FMD
> correlated with the change serum in triglycerides,
> so the
> effect probably results from
> triglyceride-containing lipoproteins.
> The mechanism appears to be oxidative stress
> because
> the decrease in FMD was reduced (71%) by the
> concomitant
> administration of vitamins C and E."


The link is broken so I don't know if it's them or you who wants to put the "SNAKE OLIVE OIL THAT COULD BE MARKETED, SOLD, AND EXPORTED from useless olives" "myth" to rest. Lol.

In my experience, which does not include a knowledge of how my postprandial endothelium were doing after consuming olive oil, but I do know it does not raise my blood sugar or lower my blood 02.

I seriously doubt these studies tested stone ground living olive oils so to me, without knowing that, and with the link being broken, I can't take this study seriously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 01:40AM by SueZ.

I do not try to read books proving or disproving the effects of oil in the diet. It just does not make sense. And I think the sproutarian man summarized it correctly.

"The question l always ask myself is...why would you extract oil from a food and then add it in food again??? That doesn't make sense on so many levels. Why would you alter nature's synergy by adding in an oil with concentrated nutrients? "



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 01:47AM by RawPracticalist.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The latest scientific research shows that olive
> oil is one of the worst aging foods in the planet
> (super high AGE - Advanced Glycation End
> Products)
>
> [marshfieldceliac.weebly.com]
> /2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf


This is the funniest study yet. Who pays these people some hospital association dietary group or something? Honestly. I've lost every bit of respect for dietitians.