I think Richard Blackman and Storm Talifero both have the ideal male physiques. I think healthy, lean, and muscular looks better and seems more natural. Those overly bulky individuals with veins ripping is overkill IMO. Those bodies are rarely, if ever, a naturally occurring body type.

I can't help but think about the tribal people we see on National Geographic. They are lean and muscular and very natural looking. They need to be in order to hunt, gather food, and survive in their environments. They have enough muscle to get the job done without too much bulk.

When I was young, I used to watch men in Central America climb coconut trees and was very impressed with that. I remember trying it and it is not easy. Their arms were ripped from swinging their machetes to clear a field. They looked absolutely healthy. They glowed with health and had nice definition.

roxeli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I can't help but think about the tribal people we
> see on National Geographic. They are lean and
> muscular and very natural looking. They need to
> be in order to hunt, gather food, and survive in
> their environments. They have enough muscle to
> get the job done without too much bulk.
>
> When I was young, I used to watch men in Central
> America climb coconut trees and was very impressed
> with that. I remember trying it and it is not
> easy. Their arms were ripped from swinging their
> machetes to clear a field. They looked absolutely
> healthy. They glowed with health and had nice
> definition.


At last some common sense.....this is probably the most sense I've heard on this subject in a long time!

Yes the tribes people are a very natural and functional physique but for some reason we have lost sight of that and see it as inferior or unacceptable...yet these guys are as strong as anybody in western society. Getting active should be the main concern here not bloating yourself up with food to the point where your organs give up and calling it muscle mass!

Take cooked food out of the mix and you will have a natural,lean and athletic body!....period.

RB

yes, but people in the wild and in tribes also are commonly deficient in an abundance of things...i've read stories of people going out in the woods and trying to survive on their own for 44 days, and yes, they came home ripped and looked great, but they were also showing extreme signs of calorie-deprivation (extreme hunger, inability to stay warm, loss of sexual desire (i remember the person saying they hadn't seen their girlfriend of 2 years in 44 days and almost was disgusted when she touched his arm when they were reunited)..) Anyway..looks can certainly be deceiving.
Plus it's not fair to compare extreme bodybuilders to someone who is not trying to be a bodybuilder, only build muscle. I think the whole point of discussion was when someone ate cooked food they gained muscle easier then when they ate raw food -- but it's not like this automatically means that they are only bulking up because of the cooked food that supposedly makes bodybuilders look less natural then one of the two fellows mentioned.. bodybuilding isn't exactly "natural" per say, so it's easy to think that one looks more natural then the other. It doesn't make it healthier or more practical.

My husband, who's 65, is still very lean and muscular, and even though he's not 100% raw or vegan, he has the 'look' that a lot of healthy raw foodists have, because he practices calorie restriction and doesn't ever eat junk food. He still buys a little bit into the idea that he ought to be a bit bulkier, and I have to remind him that the bulging muscles of most bodybuilders are unhealthy and look repulsive to me. (I think a lot of them look like their arms and legs are ready to explode!) Naturally 'lean & mean' and ripped, without excess fat and water weight to create bulk, is the ideal, and I think a lot of the younger generation, especially, today are catching on and rejecting the 'Hulk' stereotype.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes, but people in the wild and in tribes also are
> commonly deficient in an abundance of
> things...i've read stories of people going out in
> the woods and trying to survive on their own for
> 44 days, and yes, they came home ripped and looked
> great, but they were also showing extreme signs of
> calorie-deprivation (extreme hunger, inability to
> stay warm, loss of sexual desire (i remember the
> person saying they hadn't seen their girlfriend of
> 2 years in 44 days and almost was disgusted when
> she touched his arm when they were reunited)..)
> Anyway..

Where these people long time raw vegans....if not then it's not surprising that that they went through changes/difficulties, they may have been detoxing/cleansing and not known it...

I don't buy into this tribes people are "deficient" thing....if you do tests on anybody chances are that they are going to be lacking something it just depends on when and how you test them but who's to say that isn't going to be made up for at a later date because that's how it's done in nature and to whose standards are the tribes people "deficient" if it's modern nutritional standards I definately don't buy into it....

Anyway...I'm definately going to shud Up 'N' Train now, I've done way too much talking!!!!

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 03:17PM by richard blackman.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My husband, who's 65, is still very lean and
> muscular, and even though he's not 100% raw or
> vegan, he has the 'look' that a lot of healthy raw
> foodists have, because he practices calorie
> restriction and doesn't ever eat junk food. He
> still buys a little bit into the idea that he
> ought to be a bit bulkier, and I have to remind
> him that the bulging muscles of most bodybuilders
> are unhealthy and look repulsive to me. (I think a
> lot of them look like their arms and legs are
> ready to explode!) Naturally 'lean & mean' and
> ripped, without excess fat and water weight to
> create bulk, is the ideal, and I think a lot of
> the younger generation, especially, today are
> catching on and rejecting the 'Hulk' stereotype.


Yes... I believe that if you take cooked food out of the mix and you will have a natural,lean and athletic body!....period.

RB

>I don't buy into this tribes people are "deficient" thing....<

Good point, Richard. Probably no more deficient (or less so) than most average cooked food eaters in western societies.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fruitarianone, you look absolutely fantastic!
>
> Except maybe you need a new dentist (just
> kidding!)
>

How rude of you...if you've been punched, kicked and head butted in the mouth as many times as I have you'd need a dentist too, I played six years of pro rugby league without mouth protection and I'm paying for it now, I'm glad to pay the piper because not wearing protection was my choice, heck it would be a lot worse if I was still on cooked food but imagine that wasn't the case and I was really conscious about my teeth, you would have really upset me.

And the worst thing is you thought you were being funny!...Shame on you, why don't you post a pic of yourself and let me pic something to poke fun at....but then I would never do that because I've got more respect for myself.

RB





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 03:27PM by richard blackman.

kwan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I don't buy into this tribes people are
> "deficient" thing....<
>
> Good point, Richard. Probably no more deficient
> (or less so) than most average cooked food eaters
> in western societies.

Exactly...why do some raw vegans insist on living the raw lifestyle by cooked food standards then wondering why nothing adds up!?

RB

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Plus it's not fair to compare extreme bodybuilders
> to someone who is not trying to be a bodybuilder,
> only build muscle.

Heavy weight body builders are the ones we all see in the mainsream bodybuilding mags, they are the ones that set the standard for the rest to follow.

RB

Bro Richard,

Glad to see you are still heavy in the game of health brother. I am very impressed with your web site, Great Job!! Keep up the good work.

What you stated is absolutely true and while I totally miss-read Bruce's point (excuse me for that Bruce), I think you hit my point on the head. Regardless of what a fruitarian/raw vegan/vegan does, the world will never be satisfied. Specifically Raw Vegan and Fruitarian (especially Fruitarian), the sacrifice that it takes to allow detox to do its work and give up things we were trained to enjoy from the womb, to break with those things we always sought for comfort, these are way too much to ask most of our society to accept. Especially when we are being programmed to think we can have a crown with no cross.

Stay real bro. Glad to catch you on here. Look forward to the blog section of your site going up!

Todd

RB,

i think suncloud was just talking about that funny picture of you with the teeth...

iLIVE,

I think by tribespeople, these posters mean, like, the Amazon Basin or Samoa, or the outer Indonesian archipelago, where varied physical labor, and a low calorie/produce-dense diet have been culturally normal for thousands of years. Not Hairy-Scary-Man-of-the-Woods coming out of his survivalist experiment in upper British Columbia on Discovery Channel!

tglasco4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bro Richard,
>
> Glad to see you are still heavy in the game of
> health brother. I am very impressed with your web
> site, Great Job!! Keep up the good work.
>
> What you stated is absolutely true and while I
> totally miss-read Bruce's point (excuse me for
> that Bruce), I think you hit my point on the head.
> Regardless of what a fruitarian/raw vegan/vegan
> does, the world will never be satisfied.
> Specifically Raw Vegan and Fruitarian (especially
> Fruitarian), the sacrifice that it takes to allow
> detox to do its work and give up things we were
> trained to enjoy from the womb, to break with
> those things we always sought for comfort, these
> are way too much to ask most of our society to
> accept. Especially when we are being programmed to
> think we can have a crown with no cross.
>
> Stay real bro. Glad to catch you on here. Look
> forward to the blog section of your site going
> up!
>
> Todd

Yeah...it's sad but true, trust me on that, you were right when you said it's better to prove it to yourself that your intuition is on point, after all you gotta live with yourself and you gotta be real even when no one is looking.

Yeah I smiled when I saw your user name, I've been wondering where you were!!!!

Don't disappear again man...

RB

Alright let's have some fun....I'll put my money where my mouth is and put myself out there....

now...

1) Out of the 3 pics who looks more natural?
2) Out of me and Ronnie who do you think is over eating?
3) Out of me and the greek statue, who's most likely to move?

A greek Statue of an athlete:


Recent photo of me:


Photo of Ronnie Coleman Pro Body Builder:


RB





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 04:25PM by richard blackman.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RB,
>
> i think suncloud was just talking about that funny
> picture of you with the teeth...


OOOoops....I forgot that pic was in here...ha,ha,ha

SORRY SUNCLOUD, my bad!

RB

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RB,
>
> i think suncloud was just talking about that funny
> picture of you with the teeth...

You know, I've actually been asked if those teeth were real....

RB

hmmm.. you'll need to pose like the greek guy first.

and ronnie is about to enjoy that brazil nut he's in the process of cracking between his thighs. and you're not.

Also here's a pic of in my Rugby days...note that you can actually see my thighs for those that were complaining about my under developed legs earlier.

We just won the Wigan sevens....


RB

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Alright let's have some fun....I'll put my money
> where my mouth is and put myself out there....
>
> now...
>
> 1) Out of the 3 pics who looks more natural?
> 2) Out of me and Ronnie who do you think is over
> eating?
> 3) Out of me and the greek statue, who's most
> likely to move?"
>
> A greek Statue of an athlete:
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> 0-0452C.jpg
>
> Recent photo of me:
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> .jpg
>
> Photo of Ronnie Coleman Pro Body Builder:
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> g
>
> RB

Ok lets start with coleman. Huge, lots of details of muscle. Not looking too functional though. Definitely not looking natural. It appears to give credence to hype and overkill. Which is probably why many people are drawn to it. Of course, while I appreciate the man had to work very hard to look like that, its not actually healthy. If he does what he is doing now long term, there will be no long term. I don't know what synthetics are "legal" in pro-bodybuilding these days, but even the legal stuff is really not natural or healthy. To eat in excess of 5000 to 10000 or more calories is a form of violence against your own body. A form of self-abuse. At the end of the day, its entertainment and its all about the show.

Next, you RB. You look like you were born to look. I am biased because of my love for fruitarianism (even though at this point you are liquidarian, for now). Of course you also must work hard to have the look you do. But the difference is long term, it will only get better and healthier. At the end of the day its real life and that more abundantly.

Finally, the greek guy. Ok RB, I will give you that you are definitely more likely to move, but that dude is tight! I want to look like him....LOL.


Todd

The person who went out in the wild was not raw at all; they were living off of what they had for 44 days and hiking with equipment on their back practically all day. You're not going to find a lot of tribe people who live on only raw food...So even if you're point was that they aren't deficient yet look "natural" , they aren't even eating raw food.

Look up studies about depriving people of calories and the idea I'm trying to express will make more sense.

This guy showed all the signs of what these people studied had showed, yet he looked ripped, and probably like a natural wild man. And no, my source is not from a discovery channel of a wild hairy man, haha, it was actually the blog of someone writing about their nutrition and experience.

and again, that bodybuilder is competing in the sport of bodybuilding, which is not exactly natural..it can actually cause health problems. Now, put up a picture of a celebrity with muscles, and things might be a little different. Most people aim to look like celebrities anyway, not bodybuilders.

the fact also that there are hundreds of different possible combinations of how the body processes nutrients should also play into account (endomorph, mesomorph, ectomorph)

One person can be struggling to get even a pound of fat off and a pound of muscle on - and have a distinct look

Another, probably tall, skinny and lanky, and have trouble putting on any muscle but burn calories like a nuclear power plant

it's also dependent on the look of someone, so how can there be a look of what is "natural"?? and tying that in with judging a diet I don't think seems justifiable

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RB,
> >
> > i think suncloud was just talking about that
> funny
> > picture of you with the teeth...
>
> You know, I've actually been asked if those teeth
> were real....
>
> RB

I did, Richard. I'm sorry for the incident... : P

All the Best,
Wong



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 05:40PM by blue_sky.

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Look up studies about depriving people of calories
> and the idea I'm trying to express will make more
> sense.
>

>
> the fact also that there are hundreds of different
> possible combinations of how the body processes
> nutrients should also play into account
> (endomorph, mesomorph, ectomorph)
>
> One person can be struggling to get even a pound
> of fat off and a pound of muscle on - and have a
> distinct look
>
> Another, probably tall, skinny and lanky, and have
> trouble putting on any muscle but burn calories
> like a nuclear power plant
>

doesn't it seem odd that someone can 'burn calories like a power plant' and not gain weight according to your previous statement?
it seems like you are set on these theories and ideas on what the body 'needs' and arn't really listening to other examples of people doing something completely contradictory. I -unlike some- do agree that everyone is different and there isn't some pre packaged solution for success on raw..nevermind for building muscle. but that isn't to say that we can use those ideas as walls to box in our potential for change...personally some of these underlining 'metabolic' differencces might just be manifestations of how the body is micromananging toxins so to speak, dpending on your genetic inheritance etc...but they arn't impossible overtime to overcome.

just some ideas.

Hey Richard...
I found this audio link on tips for locating spring water
probably won't vibe with all the info, but gives specifics on what government offices to contact etc...
[www.welikeitraw.com]

Hi Richard,

When I saw your first response to my post, I thought OH NO, I made that joke about your teeth, and those teeth were REAL! I was just about to write you the most remorseful apology of my life!

Thank you so much Richard for clearing that up! And thank you so much Fresh!

(HA! The joke is on me!)



Really, I do think you look absolutely fantastic Richard.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 06:36PM by suncloud.

blue_sky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richard blackman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > fresh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > RB,
> > >
> > > i think suncloud was just talking about that
> > funny
> > > picture of you with the teeth...
> >
> > You know, I've actually been asked if those
> teeth
> > were real....
> >
> > RB
>
> I did, Richard. I'm sorry for the incident... : P
>
> All the Best,
> Wong
Hey man don't worry, I wasn't offended, you weren't the only person to ask either....I think because I was a Fruitarian they were assuming the teeth were real....ha,ha!!!

RB

Hey thanks for the link Anaken!!!!

RB

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Richard,
>
> When I saw your first response to my post, I
> thought OH NO, I made that joke about your teeth,
> and those teeth were REAL! I was just about to
> write you the most remorseful apology of my life!
>
>
> Thank you so much Richard for clearing that up!
> And thank you so much Fresh!
>
> (HA! The joke is on me!)
>
>

Yes SUNCLOUD I apologise sincerely....I completely forgot that pic of me messing around with fake teeth was in here..(it's an old thread) I was wondering why on earth somebody would say such a thing, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it, so please, please, please forgive me!

Nah...the jokes not on you, it's on me!

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 06:37PM by richard blackman.

tglasco4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richard blackman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Alright let's have some fun....I'll put my
> money
> > where my mouth is and put myself out there....
> >
> > now...
> >
> > 1) Out of the 3 pics who looks more natural?
> > 2) Out of me and Ronnie who do you think is
> over
> > eating?
> > 3) Out of me and the greek statue, who's most
> > likely to move?"
> >
> > A greek Statue of an athlete:
> >
> [i9.photobucket.com]
>
> > 0-0452C.jpg
> >
> > Recent photo of me:
> >
> [i9.photobucket.com]
>
> > .jpg
> >
> > Photo of Ronnie Coleman Pro Body Builder:
> >
> [i9.photobucket.com]
>
> > g
> >
> > RB
>
> Ok lets start with coleman. Huge, lots of details
> of muscle. Not looking too functional though.
> Definitely not looking natural. It appears to give
> credence to hype and overkill. Which is probably
> why many people are drawn to it. Of course, while
> I appreciate the man had to work very hard to look
> like that, its not actually healthy. If he does
> what he is doing now long term, there will be no
> long term. I don't know what synthetics are
> "legal" in pro-bodybuilding these days, but even
> the legal stuff is really not natural or healthy.
> To eat in excess of 5000 to 10000 or more calories
> is a form of violence against your own body. A
> form of self-abuse. At the end of the day, its
> entertainment and its all about the show.
>
> Next, you RB. You look like you were born to look.
> I am biased because of my love for fruitarianism
> (even though at this point you are liquidarian,
> for now). Of course you also must work hard to
> have the look you do. But the difference is long
> term, it will only get better and healthier. At
> the end of the day its real life and that more
> abundantly.
>
> Finally, the greek guy. Ok RB, I will give you
> that you are definitely more likely to move, but
> that dude is tight! I want to look like
> him....LOL.
>
>
> Todd


In my opinion T...your spot on....and yeah that greek guy has got it going on for sure, beautiful physique!

Also some people have extreme personalities and they like to express that through bodybuilding which is cool if that's your thing.

RB

LOL Richard, The joke's on both of us then! ! (No apology necessary!)

Richard:

The Greek statue is very pretty, but static; Ronnie Coleman isn't static[he seems to be pulsing in the photo], but will give me nightmares; and, as Goldilocks would say, you are "just right." Keep preaching The Word!