suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL Richard, The joke's on both of us then!
> ! (No apology necessary!)

Oh thank you...I'll take that!

RB

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard:
>
> The Greek statue is very pretty, but static;
> Ronnie Coleman isn't static, but will give me
> nightmares; and, as Goldilocks would say, you are
> "just right." Keep preaching The Word!

Oh I've got nothing to preach about, I'm just sharing my opinion, as far as fitness goes, I do what I do because I can do it.

Be good

RB

Ronnie Coleman, back view:



Does anyone find this attractive? I don't.

In all fairness to this thread, and for comparison purposes ONLY, we need a back view of Richard Blackman. LOL LOL LOL jk

I'm just tryng to add a little humor to everyone's day. I'm giddy from eating oranges all day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2008 02:32AM by roxeli.

OH WOW!!!.....Roxi....if I had my shorts that far up my butt I'd be able to tie them up with my teeth..he's working them shorts for sure!..ha,ha

Imagine if he had fat...he'd be obese and everybody would be trashing his health and diet.

the best I can do for a back view is this:


Somebody mentioned a twisting pic like the greek guy, this is the best I can do:


ha,ha...Roxi...you got me good on that one!..ha,ha!

RB

Ronnie is pretty scary looking.

Richard, on the other hand, is pure poetry.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

yea the ronny pic .. scary .. its just too over the top ... worse is when i see women strive to look like this as well .. google nicole bass ... just outrageous

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Personally I don't judge how people choose to express themselves because we all gotta do what makes us happy and if building your body is what makes you happy then more power to you, yes it has it bad points like anything else but judging people was never the intention of this thread...I used bodybuilding and bodybuilding photo's as an example to prove a point. The way I see it ya makes ya choice and ya pays the price....(that was for brian,I know how he loves to correct peoples spelling/grammer) ha,ha!

Anyway I'm out, way too much talking and not enough action!

RB

if you want to believe that sure, but show me how toxins -that could be non-existent- effect a basal metabolic rate?

Richard wrote "The way I see it ya makes ya choice and ya pays the price....(that was for brian,I know how he loves to correct peoples spelling/grammer) ha,ha!"

Thanks for the acknowledgement. I don't LOVE to correct people's spelling/grammar. Once in a while I point out things. Sorry if I come across as better than thou. Not my intention I assure you. In fact, my knowledge of english is average. I don't speak it most of the time.

That Ronnie is actually a policeman...



How hypocritical that he must be sending stoners away for doing drugs while he's the biggest druggy of them all.

Kombaiyashii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That Ronnie is actually a policeman...
>
> [i133.photobucket.com]
> Ronnie_Coleman_photo580.jpg
>
> How hypocritical that he must be sending stoners
> away for doing drugs while he's the biggest druggy
> of them all.

Yeah that's unfortunate...as another poster here stated, the difference is that these drugs are called "legal", even the majority of natural bodybuilders/athletes are on some kind of drug that's deemed legal, I guess you could say that even if you eat meat you are on steriods....this is why I posted this thread in the first place because raw vegans and potential raw vegan athletes are setting unrealistic goals partly based on these guys not realising what these guys actually do.

But it's his choice!

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2008 01:58PM by richard blackman.

I thought roids were illegal?

why are people comparing bodybuilders to raw foodists..

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why are people comparing bodybuilders to raw
> foodists..

It's something that non-raw athlete's/bodybuilders new to raw veganism do alot....not so much the other way around, raw foodist generally are not interested in fitness let alone body building, some people do it to discredit the raw lifestyle. Also many raw foodists use bodybuilding trainin/eating methods to gain weight when they are going through their transitioning period and feel they are getting too skinny.

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2008 05:49PM by richard blackman.

some of us just want a great body and want to eat raw vegan also.

no, I mean, comparing pictures of people practically bulging out of their skin to a statue of a greek man, and you, a raw food man

and then simultaneously calling out diet for the whole problem of muscles looking bulky? say whaaat?

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no, I mean, comparing pictures of people
> practically bulging out of their skin to a statue
> of a greek man, and you, a raw food man
>
> and then simultaneously calling out diet for the
> whole problem of muscles looking bulky? say
> whaaat?

So what you really mean is, why do "I" compare body builders to raw vegans?

Well if you read the thread you'll know why!!!???

Keep up man...ha,ha!

This thread is just going around and around in circles now!

But hey....maybe you can share your own experience/comparisons with body building on the raw and SAD diet, I'm sure it would make an interesting to read.




RB

Thats an interesting photo of Ronnie Coleman. I don't think I have seen anyone more muscular ever. I think his rear end looks like a butterfly. I imagine a sort of smiley monster in the upper back. He is very lean and hard,Yet, it seems like his skin would be very smooth and silky soft to the touch.

There are ways in which someone can be strong, and in other ways in which people are weak. I have seen big strong musclemen sort of hobbling along, looking like they can barely walk. I think they overtrained or damaged their body from all the intense workout. They deserve some credit for all the dedicated effort, even if you don't find it attractive, there is always a trade off. I personally like dancer,gymnast and sometimes runner bodies. People who do yoga often have nice bodies also. Hardworking people can also have great bodies, some people call this 'honest muscle' as its acquired from labor, not from artifical machines.

I'm just saying, bodybuilding is a sport and comparing a bodybuilder in competition to a regular person who just likes to build muscle is a huge difference - and the diet alone will not paint a picture of what either should look like. so saying they look gross is implying they both do something that someone is disgusted by (lifting heavy weights) and probably don't eat raw foods. I still don't get why you would want to compare, it's not like all bodybuilders eat "sad" food, actually, most of them are pretty serious about their diets. I had been vegan for a year and a half before I started on all raw foods, and a vegetarian before that, and healthier food before that, so it's a little hard to reach that far back and compare my experience with the western diet and exercise to raw food and exercise, as I was in like..6th grade..haha.

iLIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just saying, bodybuilding is a sport and
> comparing a bodybuilder in competition to a
> regular person who just likes to build muscle is a
> huge difference - and the diet alone will not
> paint a picture of what either should look like.
> so saying they look gross is implying they both do
> something that someone is disgusted by (lifting
> heavy weights) and probably don't eat raw foods.
> I still don't get why you would want to compare,
> it's not like all bodybuilders eat "sad" food,
> actually, most of them are pretty serious about
> their diets. I had been vegan for a year and a
> half before I started on all raw foods, and a
> vegetarian before that, and healthier food before
> that, so it's a little hard to reach that far back
> and compare my experience with the western diet
> and exercise to raw food and exercise, as I was in
> like..6th grade..haha.


The original point of this post was lost ages ago because this post has died a death....and most of us are just having some fun with it now but you seem to have not kept up with it or you just like playing the devils advocate, either way I'm jumping off the merry go round. So to re-cap again... comparing a SAD body builder to a Raw Vegan bodybuilder has everything to do with the original post, the raw vegan athletes/bodybuilders that are living a strict 100% raw vegan lifestyle that are looking to gain weight/muscle mass, will not come anywhere near the size of a SAD bodybuilder that isn't for VARIOUS reasons, so raw vegan bodybuilders will need to stop complaining about the raw lifestyle being crap for bodybuilding and change their role models!!!

Getting into EXACTLY what EVERY single bodybuilder in the world eats is impossible because this board isn't big enough

Now...back to you...let's bring some sparkle back to this thread...c'mon don't be stingy iLIVE, share your experience with all of this RAW/SAD bodybuilding stuff!...age has nothing to do with anything, experience is experience, you've either put an extensive amount of work in and gained your own personal knowledge of what worked for you or you havn't, so don't be shy, spill da beans so we can all learn a l'il suppum, suppum!

RB

LOL! The man has laid down the gauntlet! Share your secrets, iLIVE! ;-)

>so raw vegan bodybuilders will need to stop complaining about the raw lifestyle being crap for bodybuilding and change their role models!!!<

I think this is a really important statement that needed to be brought to the light of day; sort of an elephant in the raw living room that people walk around, but it's not really a problem. Rather, it's just a perception thing. I know when I was first raw I thought "Gee, a lot of raw guys are kind of skinny! Hmmm...," but later I realized what happens during transition (men, especially, tend to lose a lot of weight when detoxifying at first); and I also began to see that a lot of bodybuilders on a SAD diet have musculature that's surrounded by fat and water-filled cells. I now see a lean, moderately muscular body as the ideal. (Luckily for me, that's exactly the way my husband is built: lean and mean, with no fat anywhere on his iron-man body-builder/marathon man body. He's not bulky at all, but he's 'ripped'.)

Lately I've come to understand that one can go much farther to build the kind of body they want with the help of their mind, as well. No matter how wonderful my raw diet and exercise plan is, if I believe strongly that I hold onto weight or lose too much weight, lack muscle tone or naturally hold onto fat cells, chances are I'll continue to see evidence of the same, but I can mentally see myself consistently as already being 'the perfect form,' (never mind what the mirror says; just holding onto the inner image) rapidly accelerating positive changes in my physique while eating and engaging in some form of daily exercise according to inner guidance.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Ya hit the nail on the head Kwan!

I've worked with many, many people, athletes and non athlete's that wanted to go raw and I get many e-mails from people all over the world and all of them have the same two things in common:

1) They have just gone raw and they are losing what they think is "muscle" rapidly and instead of seeing their cleansing process through, they panic and want to "bodybuild" to gain more weight, it's crazy because these guys are so mis-guided and desperate to look 'Normal" that all of a sudden they see bodybuilding "bulking up" methods as healthy all of a sudden.

2) They complain about a drop in performance and lack of "nutrition" since going raw vegan, which boils down to a lack of knowledge when it comes to the cleansing process and going raw vegan.

I blame this partly on the initial raw vegan leaders for this as they were the ones that painted a idealistic/romantic picture of going raw vegan with all the books, etc after all, if everybody knew that the to go raw they would probably have to go through lengthy detox symptoms and things would get far worse before they got better (depending on past habits) many people would even bother and these guru's would make no money, most failed to mention or prepare people/followers for the "hardcore" detoxification process that follows. Going raw is the easy part, it's the detox that will kick ya butt! The individual that doesn't research what they are getting into is to blame to.

RB





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2008 05:44PM by richard blackman.

After all, how many of you know what David wolfes or any other leader in the raw food movements transitioning/detox period/symptoms was like?....personally I've never heard any top raw food guru talk about their personal transitioning/detox symptoms or process or how they struggled or what their struggles were and how they over came them. I've seen some before and after pics but no real detox experiences or shows of weakness, all I've heard is how great the raw food diet is.

Infact when I first started I didn't even think there was a transitioning/detox process because nobody ever mentioned it.

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2008 05:54PM by richard blackman.

Richard wrote "After all, how many of you know what David wolfes or any other leader in the raw food movements transitioning/detox period/symptoms was like?....personally I've never heard any top raw food guru talk about their personal transitioning/detox symptoms or process or how they struggled or what their struggles were and how they over came them. I've seen some before and after pics but no real detox experiences or shows of weakness, all I've heard is how great the raw food diet is.
Infact when I first started I didn't even think there was a transitioning/detox process because nobody ever mentioned it. "


Excellent point!! I think we should start asking these so called 'leaders" these questions whenever we can. Let's start getting real here.

Maybe David Wolfe didn't get much apparent detox symptoms. My friend doesn't get any major detox symptoms, he just gets very lathargic which is why he goes back into cooked.

However when I first went raw, I broke out in really bad rashes. It was terrible. I agree that raw food 'gurus' need to cover the detox a little more, some make out that you'll detox in like 3 weeks and you'll be the happiest person in the world in 4...Obviously when people manage 4 weeks, they get discouraged.

Richard I have a question for you...I've heard that some raw foodest i.e. Karen Knowler (raw food coach) and Tim Van Orden (raw running) actually put on weight. In Karens case, she went down a few dress sizes but put on weight without any training.

Did you experience this? Or have you heard of any other people experiencing this?

Thanks.

Kombaiyashii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe David Wolfe didn't get much apparent detox
> symptoms. My friend doesn't get any major detox
> symptoms, he just gets very lathargic which is why
> he goes back into cooked.
>
> However when I first went raw, I broke out in
> really bad rashes. It was terrible. I agree that
> raw food 'gurus' need to cover the detox a little
> more, some make out that you'll detox in like 3
> weeks and you'll be the happiest person in the
> world in 4...Obviously when people manage 4 weeks,
> they get discouraged.
>
> Richard I have a question for you...I've heard
> that some raw foodest i.e. Karen Knowler (raw food
> coach) and Tim Van Orden (raw running) actually
> put on weight. In Karens case, she went down a few
> dress sizes but put on weight without any
> training.
>
> Did you experience this? Or have you heard of any
> other people experiencing this?
>
> Thanks.

Yes... of course every body will have their own experience....but either way, people quit because they are not willing to persist and are not prepared for what's in store. That's the problem with a lot of raw food coaches, thety have not been through the complete process, which should take at least 10 years to get over the nitty gritty and you have folks coaching after being raw for 3 months or even less.

I'm not sure what you mean by "put on weight" but it is normal for raw foodists to drop weight as they detox/clean then once cleanish they settle at a normal weight and more natural physique, I dropped tons of weight maybe over 50lbs but after my main detox/cleansing period was done I put on about 10lbs pretty much over night, you may not get back to being as big as you were before you went raw though.

Is that what your talking about or are you talking about gaining weight intentionally by eating a certain way?

RB





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2008 07:40PM by richard blackman.

brian1cs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard wrote "After all, how many of you know
> what David wolfes or any other leader in the raw
> food movements transitioning/detox period/symptoms
> was like?....personally I've never heard any top
> raw food guru talk about their personal
> transitioning/detox symptoms or process or how
> they struggled or what their struggles were and
> how they over came them. I've seen some before and
> after pics but no real detox experiences or shows
> of weakness, all I've heard is how great the raw
> food diet is.
> Infact when I first started I didn't even think
> there was a transitioning/detox process because
> nobody ever mentioned it. "
>
>
> Excellent point!! I think we should start asking
> these so called 'leaders" these questions whenever
> we can. Let's start getting real here.


Yeah....Nobody wants to expose their weak moments or the dark side of the raw lifestyle because it's not good for business/book sales but what's happening now is that these guru's are using detox symptoms to their advantage and making a killing, they are pushing all these uppers and calling them "super foods" all they do is get you high/wired, then when you start feeling detoxy again you simply get high again.

I always talk about this because I've been there and come out the otherside, I think it's better to let people know what they are getting into before they get into a world of hurt and end up trashing the raw lifestyle and spread all those horror stories about eating dis-orders and wasting muscles on the raw lifestyle.

RB





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2008 08:02PM by richard blackman.

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that what your talking about or are you talking
> about gaining weight intentionally by eating a
> certain way?
>
> RB


No, you understood my question correctly and gave an insightful answer. It's interesting that you said 'You put on 10lbs quickly...' It almost sounds like your body works at detoxing exclusively until it's all clear before it starts to build again. What do you think?

>I blame this partly on the initial raw vegan leaders for this as they were the ones that painted a idealistic/romantic picture of going raw vegan with all the books, etc after all, if everybody knew that the to go raw they would probably have to go through lengthy detox symptoms and things would get far worse before they got better (depending on past habits) many people would even bother and these guru's would make no money, most failed to mention or prepare people/followers for the "hardcore" detoxification process that follows<

Yes! The 'instant paradise health' hype that causes people to feel like they're failures or that they're 'doing something wrong.' I so wish these raw food teachers would fess up, because a lot of us had to go through hell before we looked and felt good on the raw diet. I can think of certain raw food gurus (on other sites, not you Bryan!) who simply will not talk about the symptoms of detoxification in any realistic way, and I think they do their clients and readers a real disservice. It's dishonest. In the '80s and '90s they were still figuring it out themselves-- I know a well-known raw food guru who was very surprised to lose his tooth enamel from too much citrus fruit in the mid-1990s-- but now the due diligence has been done, and they really need to share what they know so people don't have to suffer unnecessary physical damage or mental stress.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Did that person heal his tooth?